Advise in Server hardware

[Marc Venken]

I finaly found a guy that did a setup of server 2019 for remote desktop so that I can test running on this kind of server (comming from Peer to Peer)
Afther the 120 day trial I need to setup a final system and here I would like your advise :
I know somewhat windows desktops and a I7 if faster I5 and 32 ram beter that 16 ...
But Server hardware seems to be totaly different because they need more secure, better hardware, all better.
If that is so, I can live with that and am willing to pay for it, but when not knowing, when is there hardware overkill ?
I'm using a type FW system with lot of data transfers from DBF into Xbrowsers...

Will these servers machines run significant faster than the type high laptop/desktop

They offered a systhem for 3.500 euro like this

PowerEdge T150
Chassis 4 x 3.5in Cabled
2x 480GB SSD
Intel Xeon E-2314
16GB
Dual-Port 1GbE
S150 Software RAID-controller
iDRAC9 Enterprise
3 Year ProSupport
5x Windows Server 2022 RDS USER CALs
5x Windows Server 2022 USER CALs
1x Windows Server 2022 Standard ROK 16CORE

I bought a year ago a Laptop with high specs (like Otto adviced) for 1400 euros, but this system was not used and rapid claimed by the family for playing the heavy games )))

I could buy again a high performances laptop, +- 1500 and start using this.

and finaly I saw a offer for this kind of machine :

Dell Precision 7920 for around 2.900 euro (here some hardware like to much nVidia could be erased.

Chassis
Dell Precision 7920
CPU
2x Intel Xeon Gold 6130 - 16C/24T, 2.70-3.70Ghz, 22MB Cache, 125W
Mem
256GB DDR4, 16x 16GB PC4-2666
RAID-Controller
PERC H730 Mini Mono
GPU
3x Nvidia Quadro M4000 8GB GDDR5
Frontbezel
1x Dell Frontbezel Faceplate
Power Supply
2x 1100W 80+ Platinum Hotswap PSU
Rack Rails
1x Rackrails R740/ 7920

[Marc Venken]

I also see the exsistence of 10 Gig network cards. This will speed things up also with the correct other hardware ?

[TimStone]

Marc,

It really depends on how much demand you have.

My clients are small businesses and they run from 2 - 20 workstations. Most are using a Windows 11 computer. You will get excellent results from a Windows 11 computer, with a 512 GB SSD and a 1 TB drive, plus 16GB of RAM. Most computers have Gigabyte network cards. Of course you need more if you are going to run multiple applications all day long with multiple workstations, plus handling your phone system, and with an email / web server. But likely that is not what you need.

Just to see how well things can work, I purchased a super mini computer in a box. It runs Windows 11 Pro ( included ) and has a new Celeron processor, 512 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, for under $ 200 after applying the discount code ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BLZF36JH?ps ... ct_details ). I installed Advantage Database Server on it, and my program. It is a tiny box, but it does a great job. I am testing it as a server, and my client software accesses it on a Gigabit network. It is very fast and has absolutely no problems. I'm going to even try to set it up to access via the internet.

My point is that the power of the server really depends on what type of load you will place on it. My clients could actually enter data all day long on that tiny little box, and it in their real world setting ( especially for 3-5 workstations ), it would likely perform up to their expectations. Of course they make them with i5 and i7 processors, and more RAM, and they would be even better. My point is that you don't need to spend a lot of money and have a big powerful server. Usually that only helps the hardware seller unless you are on some huge operation.

[cnavarro]

I have been using Windows servers for many years (Server 2008, 2012, etc., even earlier and later versions), and, in addition to having to try to program my software as well as possible, I have had many problems due to the choice of hardware, which, in addition from the need to invest in its acquisition, then I have had to maintain and pay for said maintenance.
That was left behind, since with the offers that are currently in the cloud, I can have adequate hardware, with a Windows Server of the latest version, for an affordable price.
If I take account of what I pay monthly, it is cheaper than investing in equipment that after a few years I have to change again, in addition to not having to pay for hardware maintenance.
Scalability in these cases is an important factor to consider. If more resources are needed, it is essential to know that I will be able to scale it up or down without problem.
my two cents

[Antonio Linares]

Dear Cristobal,

I fully agree with you

[Otto]

Hello friends,
for our use I9 processors would be best:

When comparing high-end Xeon and i9 processors for running 5 virtual machines and RDP for 5 users, both can deliver impressive performance. If your primary concern is speed, a high-end i9 processor may offer slightly higher clock speeds and better single-threaded performance

.

I think in a small entrepreneur-led company, speed is the most important thing.

Best regards,
Otto

[Otto]

Cristobal, you may be right in general.
But not in the case of Marc. It is an entrepreneurial company and here it is not about money but about his personal time.

A RDP server in the own network, data backup directly with WINDOWS server backup on connected hard disks.

And the most important: my data is mine and inhouse.

Best regards,
Otto

[Marc Venken]

Thanks for several inputs on my question.

I'm sure that I will not start using the special servers system that come for 3500 euro. More hardware than needed.

Cloud : tja... I think that there will always be smarther people that can have access and maybe block data. even FaceBook ect. where hit. And so, I like to keep my data inhouse.
But I did a request for information and will see for a test scenerio, just to have the feel of it.

Desktop versus Laptop : At this moment Desktop because when something is wrong, we can open it and mostly repair it. Desktop fault is mostly 'call the shop'. Rearly happens I have to say.


64 GR ram : Will FW ever use it ? Is FW limited to 16-32 ram ?
SSD = most speed for now
That 1 Gig Network. There are 10 gig cards and corresponding hardware. 10 Gig will make a difference in a typical dbf/Xbrowse system not ? or due to using Server 2019 and RDP Cards with 1 versus 10 won't matter, since all
processing is done on the I9

This Desktop has nice specs for € 999

Intel Core i9 10900 (10 Cores - 20 Threads) Processor
Moederbord met H410-chipset
64GB DDR4 (max. 3200MHz) Werkgeheugen
2000GB NVMe M.2 SSD Opslag
Intel UHD Graphics 630 onboard
1 Gigabit Netwerkcontroller onboard
5.1-kanaals Audiocontroller onboard
420 watt ATX Voeding
WiFi 5 (Wireless-N+AC) en Bluetooth 4.2
Zwarte M-ATX Mini-tower Behuizing
Afmetingen: 36 x 18 x 39 cm (HxBxD)

[Marc Venken]

About Windows Server 2019 STANDARD

I have not had a price yet for a Server 2019 program and licence.

We are with 3 people so the licence of 5 will be needed.

However, I heard that it was possible that we can have a 2 person licence, or it is included in the server 2019 standard program.... and the third person could work on the server itself like it is here computer.
She only works very short time on the cpu and always on the most light software purpose, simply and a amount of products that are diliverd. (Stock changes)

There are several server 2019 versions. For very small business, what you suggest ?

I'm in the final face now and like to desited witch system to go for

Thanks already for helping

[Jimmy]

hi Marc,

Intel Core i9 10900 (10 Cores - 20 Threads) Processor

don´t know if "Desktop"-CPU work fine with Server Software
those newer "Desktop" CPU have "P"-Core and "E"-Core

"real" Server most use Intel XEON or AMD EPYC CPU and use ECC RAM
those CPU have no "E"-Core so i don´t know how Server 2019 / 2022 Software will react

read here : Alder Lake 12th Gen Intel CPU won't boot on Windows Server 2022 with HyperV enabled
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-server-for-it-pro/alder-lake-12th-gen-intel-cpu-won-t-boot-on-windows-server-2022/td-p/3010622
---

as Tim say : how much Server Power do you need

i know People run many "virtual-Machine" on Server which need much CPU Power and RAM

but if you run only PostgreSQL or MySQL, a "Celeron" CPU will do the Job for 3 (fast) Workstation
it is like a NAS which have "build-in" Support for PostgreSQL or MySQL

---

about RAM
in my "Mini" Server i have 2 x 4 GB "Dual-Channel" DDR4 RAM
for PostgreSQL Server i use 50 % of RAM as "Cache"

remember when use PostgreSQL or MySQL to "optimize" RAM for "Cache"

\PostgreSQL\xx.x\data\postgresql.conf
\ProgramData\MySQL\MySQL Server 8.0\my.ini

---
official Microsoft

Microsoft Windows Server 2019 RDS User CAL - 5x Remote Desktop Client User Access Lizenz 821,00 €
Microsoft Windows Server 2022 5x RDS User CAL - 5x Remote Desktop Client User Access Lizenz 862,00 €

have a look @ Ebay

! Note : if it is for DELL or HP than it is "bundle" to Hardware so DON´T buy this

---

Workstation : do you need a Windows 11 "ready" PC for 299,- €

AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 4650G (Zen 2), 6-Core ( 6× 3700 MHz, Turbo 4200 MHz) + HT
16 GB DDR4 , Dual-Channel (2 x 8 GB), 3200 MHz Kingston FURY Beast
500 GB Kingston® NV2 NVMe, max. 3500 MB/s | 2100 MB/s

Gigabyte A520M K V2,
1× PCIe 3.0 ×16 (×16 Modus), 1× PCIe 3.0 ×1
1× M.2, Key M, 2280 (PCIe 3.0 ×4/SATA),
4× SATA 6 GBit/s mit RAID 0, 1, 10

Extern (I/O-Panel)
4× USB 3.2 Gen1, Typ A
2× USB 2.0

Intern (Header)
2× USB 3.2 Gen1
4× USB 2.0

1× HDMI 2.1 (2160p@60Hz)
1× D-Sub (VGA)
HDCP 2.3

https://www.csl-computer.com/pc-csl-sprint-5710-ryzen-5.html

you only need to buy a "License Key" for Windows 7/8/10 which can be used for Windows 11

if you use Server 2019 / 2022 buy a "PRO" Version "License Key" and use MediaCreationTool
you can to download ISO or let MediaCreationTool write on a 8 GB USB.Stick (will FORMAT it)

[TimStone]

All of my clients are "multi-user". Some have true Windows Server software but most just use Windows 10 or 11 Pro.

While some have been using ADS ( Client Server ), in more recent years, 3 - 5 users, on current computers, have NO complaints about speed / performance.

Most are using an i5 processor on the server. Right now, I'm using a Dell Inspiron AIO, with ADS, as a "server". That's a non-power computer. I access it with Windows Remote Desktop from a Mac, two Macs running Parallels, and a Surface 4 notebook. I can do data intensive work, multiple files open at once ( with indexes ), etc. and NEVER have performance issues in real world processing.

That computer an i7 processor with 16GB of RAM and an SSD. For an office, it is certainly good enough. Of course, in my previous note I mentioned a super inexpensive computer I bought for testing and it works fine as a server, or can also be a workstation to the Dell. I also don't know that you will be disappointed with the performance of your Gigabit internet cards. They will probably be just fine.

Again, you are talking about a small, in-house, system for 3 users. It's not about test numbers. How well will it work with the data you currently process in your daily work ? That is what is important.

My clients are ALL repair shops. Some are small and others are quite large, and even multi-location. No one using current Windows 11 computers is having any problems using the software on 3 to 5 workstations, and they are processing data, and searching for parts and information on the web, all day long.

[Marc Venken]

Most are using an i5 processor on the server. Right now, I'm using a Dell Inspiron AIO, with ADS, as a "server". That's a non-power computer. I access it with Windows Remote Desktop from a Mac, two Macs running Parallels, and a Surface 4 notebook. I can do data intensive work, multiple files open at once ( with indexes ), etc. and NEVER have performance issues in real world processing.

This is the kind of setup i'm trying out. Have to do some adjustmens in my software for paths, but than I have RDS working. No server, just a Win 10 computer. Like You, Otto is also happy with this config, so it should be more than enough for my small business. I'm Not using a ADS software however because i'm into dbf,cdx

I discoverd a maybe bigger problem in my software. Using Xbrowse as my core system in almost all code, I see that moving the cursor in the cells, functions are executed like retrieving data. Normaly this should only happen when data is changed, so I have codeblocks wrong in use. I have to digg a bit deeper into this and post some issues here when I find them.

[Marc Venken]

Do I have to see Windows server 2019 and RDS as 2 software items ?
Using RDS I don't need Windows server then ?

The CPU I9 mentioned above has a win11-Pro installed.