Advantage Database Server

[TimStone]

For years I have had my clients using Advantage Database Server with good success, even though it can be expensive.

I recently had some limited communication with them, and they are now non-responsive.

I used to get files and info from devzone.advantagedata.com but today it seems to be down.

It appears the last version published had a codeset from 2015.

With little or no communication, little or no updates for nearly 7 years, and now server problems ( ? ), is this product being phased out ? Does anyone have current information on it ?

If it is not going to be around, then what alternatives ( with DBF ) are people finding for client server operations ?

I realize this may be the stimulus to moving the program to SQL, and I'm looking at that with the least disruption possible, but for now I'm wondering about continuing with DBF in a network setting. No, Remote Desktop is NOT a viable option.

[Jimmy]

hi,

as i know SAP have cancel ADS last Year but you still can get Suppourt and Updates

in German you can buy ADS with -25% off at TOBAX Software until 2025 (see here)
https://www.xbaseforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=12118&p=140151

as many Xbase++ User work with ADS you also can ask in German Xbase++ Forum
"Nightcrawler" (ADS) and "Marcus Herz" (TOBAX) are User of that Forum

[Otto]

Hello Jimmy,

You are one of the database experts I know who is familiar with the various databases.

May I ask you to look through this document from 2012 (10 years old) in the light of the new possibilities with mod harbour developments and, if necessary, supplement it.

I mean primarily regarding the fact that with mod harbour the DBF files are only opened briefly and nothing is transmitted over the network.

Best regards,
Otto

************************************


You are aware of the limitations of DBFCDX in multi-user environment. They are required to provide applications to be used by more clients and also over internet. That is the reason to seek alternatives.

mod harbour changed the situation as you use "not over the internet" but like on a local system.

Up to 5/6 users, DBFCDX is okay. Actually, this limit depends on how data intensive and how large are the data tables.

mod harbour
As you open and close the DBF files it is practical, not possible - also you have many users on your system - that at the same time you have opened one and the same DBF file from many users simultaneously.



In my view this should not affect XYProgram because the size of DBFs is small and most importantly you are relying more on remote desktop. Performance penalties are very minimum. DBFCDX should serve the purpose with adequate dependability.

Quick review of other alternatives:

1. ADS. This is costly. Some of our developers are taking ADS partnership and selling ADS along with their application. They get price of application as well as margin from ADS for sale of ADS products.

PROS: Rock solid. No index maintenance is needed. Takes full advantage of both ISAM (for browses) and porting legacy code and at the same time SQL of RDMS with the great power for complex queries. Calculations are done on the server and only summary comes to server reducing network traffic and also highly improves speeds.
Free from the limitations of DBFCDX, importantly size. Better performance with more concurrent users and larger tables.
CONS: Cost
Porting problems from legacy code ( few but there are issues)
To take full advantage of SQL we need to recode.

2. SQL/RDMS like MySql or its replacements
PROS: FREE
Rock solid databases and limited or no maintenance like ADS
Good performance with unlimited concurrent connections and with very large tables
Advantage of using SQL for complex queries / jobs
CONS Time taken to port the legacy code
Change from RDD kind of programming

Opinion:
Converting xyProgram to any other RDBMS is now a very big task. Conversion times will be very high/
Conversion to ADS is less time-consuming, but it COSTS more to your clients and the benefits may not worth the effort and price.

As it is DBFCDX appears to be quite adequate for the purpose.

[TimStone]

Otto,

ADS is perfect for my clients who need it. I have some using 20 workstations with almost instant speed and it never has issues.

Some of my clients run smaller operations ( 2 or 3 workstations ) and they are fine with Peer to Peer, estpecally with the current fast computers and networks.

My concern is that ADS is owned by SAP, which is a company driven by profits, and it appears they are fading it out. I am a "partner" so I can buy directly from them. However, I can't get the new "person responsible for the product" to even respond to my emails.

I'm not concerned about new clients. I just want to be able to expand user counts for licenses, etc. I have the tools to do this online, but have hesitations asking my clients to pay for something that may not be supported at all in the future.

Many additions have been made to the tDatabase class, and some of that addresses SQL. I am focusing on that and have already used some of the functionality to automatically build the SQL file, and import my data from .DBF. I am hopeful that I can create some modifications to my existing product to make the transition simpler.

I am not looking forward to transitioning all of my clients to SQL, but I'm confident I can do it.

Of course, it would be nice if SAP would simply put their "discontinued" product out in the public domain and eliminate the licensse cost. Sadly, some just won't do that hoping for the rare sales which allow them to make money off of legacy code that comes with no support or fixes.

As I've said before, Remote Desktop is not an option, nor is mod_harbour. One of my clients just had his internet upgraded, and he now has download speeds of 35 mbps. That is not practical when using 5 workstations with a complex data entry program that handles perhaps thousands of fields of data every hour. So it must be a site based server system.

[Otto]

Tim,
Tim, I understand.

It's just double-edged.

For the moment, when you are not in competition with other software providers, a desktop program fits.

But as soon as you have to face the competition, you lose.
And that's bitter because then you have nothing to fight against.
Really, nothing.

When you realize that, you want to be on the web.
If you have no experience as a web developer, then the only realistically possible solution is mod harbour.
Here you know the backend and have no learning effort.
But also this way takes some time.

But if so few of us actively participate and help now, it will be difficult.

Waiting, closing your eyes, demanding that this and that is needed before you start are the worst possible advisors.

Best regards,
Otto

[TimStone]

Otto,

I started this work 40 years ago ( 1982 ). I'm now 75. How many more years do you think I need to prepare to program ?

There are people out there who still use the DOS version of my application I wrote prior to the year 2000. There are others who continue to stay current and they do well with what I now offer.

You and I also have very different data needs. You can do much with smaller amounts of data for each transaction, but I cannot. You esist in Europe with excellent internet connectivity and speeds. Many of my clients can't get that quality at any price, so they need a local server based system.

Competitors exist, and they may do a lot of business, but they are not taking away my clients. I am very happy with my current client base size, and I'm not trying to increase that now. My clients have even called and asked that I not retire because they value the service I provide.

I am considering another project, and I just might write it for the web. However, I would use SQL and the more popular web development software options so others could take it over in the future. My mind will not always be able to do programming, so I must consider the future of my clients. How many younger programmers starting out are working with xbase development of new projects and with mod_harbour ? Perhaps some who are expanding on legacy code, but a new programmer coming out of university is far more likely to use other resources like Python ( which is currently ranked #1 in popularity ) or others that are pretty universal.

So, you may be very wise with the path you are taking, for your circumstances, but it simply doesn't fit in mine. I think the most imortant focus for me is to convert the data handling to SQL ... which is a large project but certainly possible.

Tim

[Otto]

Tim,
I understand.

But not going to web with mod harbour is missing so much joy.

Having your own web server and being able to do everything that is possible today.

With mod harbour practically everything remains as it was with Fivewin.

At the backend you have harbour and at the frontend you use a WYSIWYG HTML editor instead of Resource Workshop.
It's fun again.

Best regards,
Otto

My daughters and me on the team table - I am missing on the photo as I took it.

[Antonio Linares]

Dear Tim,

Besides Otto's great advise, I would suggest you using MariaDB. Mr. Rao has fine tuned FWH for many years to work smoothly with it.

MariaDB is free, a great community supporting it and surely with Mr. Rao and others great support here, you may do the transition from DBFs to MariaDB really easy

[dutch]

Dear Tim,

I can guarantee that Master Rao is great support for FWH/MariaDb. I use xHB/FWH/ADS/R&R for more 15 years. Today I move to xHB/FWH/MariaDB/CrystalReport by Master Rao help. I'm success transform from ADS to MariaDb for years. I can confirm you that, it will be fine.

[vilian]

I have used ADS for many years, but some years ago I have moved all my programs to MySql and also can guarantee - FWH/MySql and Mr Rao support are great !!!

[TimStone]

I have many notes from Mr. Rao and I am adapting to use MySQL. This is a very large product and I was comfortable keeping it with the .DBF files for those customers who continue to use it. However, it may be wise to spend the time making the transition. I have already started some of the work.

I mainly was trying to see what people knew about the current status of ADS. The representative is just ignoring my questions and not responding to my emails.

[Rick Lipkin]

Tim

Just curious why you don't choose Sql Server and or MS Access .. the same ADO code applies to both databases ... only the connection strings change .. I use MS Access for local installs and Sql Server for larger Corporate installs .. AGAIN .. the code doesn't change just the connection string .. .

Rick Lipkin

[Giovany Vecchi]

Hello everybody.
I work with ads since 2004/2005, in 2008 I started working with data dictionary using ADT. I have systems for registries where the data reaches 60gb because of the Blob/Binary fields that have PDF, Doc, Jpg files and others. Source codes currently use 80% SQL and we shouldn't underestimate the standard commands. For this mix I created tAds, to work object-oriented. Tables or scripts in sql are all object-classified. I also worry about the Ads updates that are not happening. But if I look at Ads features these days, I don't think I even know 50% of them. And I think that Ads even frozen will endure years yet.

If anyone wants to see the tAds class enter here:

https://github.com/giovanyvecchi/tAdsGit.git

[TimStone]

Giovany,

I have my application setup to run either .DBF, or .ADT. That works just fine.

Here is my concern. I am a reseller of ADS, so I have access to the ordering and updating system. However, if I obtain an upgraded user license for a client, I am selling software that has absolutely no support other than what I can provide.

A few years ago, Microsoft made a change to the OS, and we all had to scramble for a work around. ADS finally found a way to access the server in the ADS.INI file specifying the static IP. What happens if Microsoft pulls another surprise, and we have no ADS support to resolve the problem. Suddenly the investment of all our clients is dead, and they have to go back to local mode. Since some have up to 20 workstations constantly working against the server, that is just not good.

I have reached out to my rep, but she turned me over to a new person who is in charge of ADS. He won't even respond to my questions and emails. That gives me great concern. I feel I have no choice now but to make a switch for the future. My product is solid, and has no issues. It is also very large, and all features are heavily integrated. This will be a big undertaking. It would be easier if I could simply trust ADS, so that is why I've been asking about this.

Tim

[dutch]

Dear Tim,

I can still access to generate ADS license now. What is your problem?
https://devzone.advantagedatabase.com/rvc/login.aspx