FiveDBU for 32/64 bits

[Antonio Linares]

Dear Otto,

Just think for a moment: why do we keep using Harbour ?

There is Java, C#, C++, etc... but why do we keep using the Clipper language ?

Because it works and works great. So there is no need to replace it even if there are great new languages, and mainly because we are used to it and it works.

In other words: The major competitors of Windows 8 are current Windows previous versions (XP,7)

[Otto]

Dear Antonio,
the discussion gets always to a technical one.
But Windows 8 MetroStyle is a new way to operate a PC and a mobile device.
Now as I use and try to get into the logic behind MetroStyle – I have to say that this is better than all before. Much better and more beautiful.
If I see a classic windows application it is hard to stand if you are used to MetroStyle. This is all so excessive.
Take this small example:
There are 3 possibilities to close the window. Every time I have to instruct a new user I have to explain:
You can click on “Files” and then on “Exit” or click on the “Exit” icon or if you want you can also click on the “X” on the right upper corner to close the program.
Then he asks: what is better which way is best.
Then me: all are equal. He: why are there all those options. Me: I don’t know …
Best regards,
Otto

[norberto]

I'm a fan of windows 8 and metro, but I think that Antonio has reason, fivedbu has to be a universal tool, either for windows 8, windows, osx, and have to run on all OS, and Metro is unique to windows 8.
also I agree that windows 8 will be shown in September, up to this, and a product not yet finalized.
but according to sources such as IDC, Forbes, Morgan stanley, windows 8 tablets has 25% purchase intent, and until 2016 windows phone 8 will have more users than the iphone, and Android will reach peak this year and stagnate.
and I think also that we should try to make real metro applications, not trying to do a similar interface, because it would be like trying to invent the wheel again, and our programs would be as a Metro inside the Metro. (without taking merits of the great work done by Antonio, Otto and others).
im using WIndows 8 RP is my main system, and works great, only dont have winxpmode... but i can use vmware.

just my opinion.

see more here:

http://wmpoweruser.com/zte-vice-preside ... -momentum/
http://microsoft-news.com/morgan-stanle ... 8-tablets/
http://wmpoweruser.com/idc-predicts-win ... t-in-2016/

[Otto]

Hello Norberto,
More than 50% of all my clients have the WINDOWS 8 prerelease installed. They are ready to work - now.
I will finish the conversation to MetroStyle of my whole program very soon- I can tell you that it will take me 1 year of time do get this job done. And it is not only me working on the software. We are a team.
Keep in mind that MetroStyle has nothing to do with the operating system it is the interface between the user and the PC.
You personally must get fit and understand the benefits then you can start programming in this style.
It is like the change from DOS to windows. In those days there have been many people also clipper heads who said that windows want enter in business applications.

Fivewin is optimal to create MetroStyle applications. Now it is really an advantage that we never had a visual designer.
Fivewin has the beautiful dbase syntax which makes MetroStyle coding very comfortable.

Best regards,
Otto

[norberto]

Otto, I love Metro, have windows phone and xbox, this a ecosystem, and I think that if people try without prejudices, you'll like the new windows.
but some prefer to be complaining that don't have the Start button, and according to microsoft, was withdrawn after tests of telemetry, showing not be over used.
Read also about an elderly who tested the new style and loved it, and newest joked that test and say do not get used to the changes.
Metro and a major breakthrough, something not expected of a company like microsoft, more conservatively.
but also understand Antonio, and we ourselves change the dbu for metro, we have the sources.

[Otto]

Hello Norberto,

>and we ourselves change the dbu for metro, we have the sources

Now this is exactly the point.
I want but MDI and the use of resources makes it very difficult. Therefore I ask Antonio why he chose this way.

Best regard,
Otto

[Gale FORd]

Otto,
I appreciate that you have the Windows 8 religion and want to convert all of us before it is even released but many of use are not ready to convert all of our applications yet.

I have the same issue with new users. Many options to do the same thing. One thing about human nature is that we question change. Existing windows users always fall into 2 camps. 1 type likes to use the keyboard and the other tends to use the mouse whenever possible. But I seem to remember Office 2007 tried to get away from Alt-f (File) for the first menu option and went with a button that looked like a ball. They had so many complaints that Office 2010 went back to Alt-f (File). This is a momentum thing and until there is a significant reason to change all existing applications I am going to keep the changes looking similar to my existing programs.

[Otto]

Gale,
If you try MetroStyle yourself you can decide. To recognize a trend early is not always easy and you can be wrong. My tests show me that the future of software interface is MetroStyle. If I imageine what big applications one can realize with MetroStyle then I have to say that the computer century is beginning now. Now software can do what the user wants ( in our office all the screens are touch screens ) and not the user has to do what the software wants.
Best regards,
Otto

[Otto]

Gale,
>1 type likes to use the keyboard and the other tends to use the mouse whenever possible.
And now we have a 3rd one: the one who uses the touch screen.
You can't make a "Check-IN" quicker than using the touch screen.
Best regards,
Ottp

[Gale FORd]

Otto,
I appreciate your enthusiasm but it does not change my mind. The keyboard is going to be around for a long time and as long as people use a keyboard you have applications that will take advantage of it.
I am not going to force my users to change just for the sake of change. I know you believe Windows 8 is a reason in itself but it is not going to happen for a while no matter how much effort you put into trying to convert everyone.

[Otto]

Gale,

>keyboard is going to be around for a long time and as long as people use a keyboard you have applications that will take advantage of it.

But there are more and more devices which do no longer have a keyboard: IPad, then all the ECRs, the phones, kiosk applications, etc.
>but it is not going to happen for a while no matter how much effort you put into trying to convert everyone
Yes this is a problem. If we do not develop the MetroStyle classes we don't get them. And they are not ready when we need them.
Best regards,
Otto

[Gale FORd]

That is fine for those devises or new products. Us lowly users in the business world do not change for changes sake. We have to cater to users that do not buy new computers just so they can get something new. They work with budgets and hardware/software that works. Why do you think there are so many users still using XP/Unix/Apple.
Please realize that what you say could come true at some time and it may work for your industry. It will not sell for me or my users right now.

[Otto]

Hello Gale,
as far as I know are you developing an in-house application. This is totally different from me as I am selling software.
MetroStyle:
All I want is to make some lobbying that we start in time to get solutions for this new challenge.
Best regards,
Otto

[Antonio Linares]

Some good findings about Windows 8 :

* The windows caption is centered so it looks better

* Security Essentials (Anti Virus) is built in so there is no need to install it as on Windows 7

* The boot menu is graphical now (in case you have Linux installed too)

(any Windows 8 tester is welcome to join and complete more this list, surely we all appreciate this info)

[csincuir]

I believe that both Antonio and Otho are right.
We will do not make the same mistake as Steve Ballmer, who said, that the iPad was just a big iPhone, and now are running to get Windows 8 for tablets.

I think we should maintain and improve MDI, but also, we must work in the near future that is Metro.

Just my point of view.

Carlos.