Metro style

[norberto]

I have not offended anyone ... just played around with you, I know you (virtually) to how long? (10 years?) I can't make a joke with friends?

[Antonio Linares]

You are welcome Norberto

Yes, we are very good friends. All of us. Thats why we should pay exquisite attention to the way we communicate each other...

[norberto]

Antonio, sorry if offended you, my apologies, since you have given freedom, here another joke, the last:

ask your fellow countryman, the Spanish Fernando Alonso, if he wants to leave Ferrari and go for the STR, he also manages to drive any car, but would rather stay where he can win titles, support, and money too ...

best regards, my friend.

[Antonio Linares]

Norberto,

Fernando started winning with Renault, for two consecutive years Then he did 3rd with McLaren-Mercedes, etc...

If there weren't competitors with different cars, there wouldn't be a F1 championship...

Competence is very healthy

So lets keep an open mind to all of them. We all have to learn very much from each other...

[norberto]

Looking for that side, we have very similar to Fernando:

Renault = DOS = Fivedos, Fivewin 16 bits
McLaren = Windows Xp ~ 7 = FWH (x)Harbour
Ferrari = Windows 8 = FiveMetro? or FiveModernUI?

[Antonio Linares]

Norberto,

I think that the only real choice that we have is to implement the language projections for Harbour to use the WinRT:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7432905/what-are-winrt-language-projections

http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Sep-15.html

but that would require a huge amount of work and based on the fact that just a few want it, I seriously doubt that it could became a reality.
The whole Harbour dev team would have to push in such direction.

[Gale FORd]

Many times I have discussions with people and sometimes they interpret what I say differently. Sometimes people think I am confrontational when I am just being passionate or just being devils advocate. If you think about it, some of the best learning and ideas comes from vigorous discussions.

As far as Metro with or without WinRT or the same code running on any platform, I don't really think that is the answer.
It is just like any company, many people have many different roles. You do not want or need the same screen doing AP as Email. You cannot expect to do the same spreadsheet on a desktop with a 23" monitor/mouse and a Windows phone with 7" screen/touch. So why would we need the same code to run on both or need the same type of interface?

I went back a year or more and was looking at some of the posts on this board. There was a big push to get ribbon working with backstage because of Office 2010. The same people that wanted that interface then now say that only Metro interface is the way to go. What will be the next must have interface. In the meantime real work gets done with and without the newest interface. The more things change the more they stay the same

[Antonio Linares]

WinRT is a new set of APIs that have the following properties:

It implements the new Metro look.
Has a simple UI programming model for Windows developers (You do not need to learn Win32, what an HDC, WndProc or LPARAM is).
It exposes the WPF/Silverlight XAML UI model to developers.
The APIs are all designed to be asynchronous.
It is a sandboxed API, designed for creating self-contained, AppStore-ready applications. You wont get everything you want to create for example Backup Software or Hard Disk Partitioning software.
The API definitions is exposed in the ECMA 335 metadata format (the same one that .NET uses, you can find those as ".winmd" files).

[norberto]

Antonio,

We would have to see how many people here on the forum really wants to migrate, develop for Windows 8RT , Windows phone 8, even for you to see the possibility of creating a fivert.
create a support group, to help and test. see in the harbour forum has been interested, etc.
but I think we should wait for the launch of Windows 8, from a few days to get those numbers.

Regards
Norberto

[Antonio Linares]

There is not even a console (terminal, command window) in WinRT...

There is one on Android, and I am very interested about it. Not sure if the same concept could be taken to WinRT.

I don't see the point of having to code in a different operating system to build for a platform, i.e.:

* For iOS, you have to develop from Mac OSX.

* For Android, you have to develop from Windows, Mac or Linux (using Eclipse and Java).

* For WinRT, you have to develop from Windows desktop.

A complete operating system would be self contained...

(just brain storming...)

[Antonio Linares]

What I mean is:

We should be able to execute Harbour from a terminal in WinRT. Compile a PRG and make it run from WinRT itself.

Simplicity. Isn't it the point ?

[norberto]

in windows 8 tablets running on ARM, has no console mode, but Windows 8 running on x86 (desktop or tablet), has the old cmd (console), we have to test the program on x86.
many are confusing the windows 8 and Windows 8 for ARM, the second has no console mode and only runs on ARM tablets and comes already installed, it is not possible to buy separate.

we have :

Windows 8 x86 (desktop / tablet/ slate) : run win32 appl in console mode / run winrt appl (Metro)
Windows 8 RT ARM (tablets) : run winrt appl only (metro), desktop appl only from Microsoft, no console

Norberto

[Antonio Linares]

Norberto,

I mean a console running as a WinRT app.

I plan to do some tests...

[Otto]

Hello Antonio,

What I mean is:
We should be able to execute Harbour from a terminal in WinRT. Compile a PRG and make it run from WinRT itself.
Simplicity. Isn't it the point ?

This is exactly what we are doing. We run all our software from a TerminalServer.
But in the meantime till we have full Metro-controls from you we use your Metro-like-controls. And thanks to you we have them.
Other languages do not have this chance at this time.

The problem of metro for us “dBase” programmers is not the technical side but the design.
I invite you all to try to redesign the layout of your software to a metro style software. This is for us application developer the problem not how Fivewin implement WINRT. Sit down and design your screens with paint or Corel Draw and you will see how difficult this transformation is.
In the past we didn’t look much on usability – be honest – if you add a new function you add somewhere a button then if a new function is to add you change the button to a popup button. But this is not software which is user friendly.

The discussion goes in a wrong way. The implementation is the part Antonio has to resolve we can’t help here. And there is time to do this becouse we have metro like style for now.

But we have to find ways to transform our software to a better one more useable. And I have to say that WINHOTEL in Metro like style is much better than the classic WINHOTEL we had.
You can operate the software without learning how to use. All is much easier for the end user.


Best regards,
Otto

[TimStone]

Good Morning

I do my work based on what my customers tell me they want. I use the tools that allow me to do this, and it doesn't matter who creates those tools. Here is what they find important:

1. They want the interface they see to be the same no matter what device they use

2. They have a lot of data to input and they want fast performance.

3. They want to obtain data from other programs ( ie. ordering parts, labor descriptions and times, customer follow up services )

4. Most of their work is done on a desktop, but they want a portable ( tablet ) device that allows them to work face to face with a customer, to take inventory, and other tasks that require mobility

5. Some want the capability to work while in a mobile vehicle, still having live access to their data.

6. They want reliability, and they don't like change ! Connectivity ( networking ) MUST be transparent to them.

Every one of these can be effectively managed under Windows 8 Desktop. Currently I provide all of this capability with a FW/Harbour/MSVC program that runs perfectly across all devices ( except phone at this time ). No other OS does this as simply or completely.

What works for me, and for my clients, is not necessarily the best solution for others. That is why its nice to have so many options.