Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby Otto » Sat May 18, 2024 9:12 am

Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers from a Wide Range of Data

Bestagers" is a term used to describe people who are in the later stages of their working life, typically aged 50 and above. This demographic often includes individuals who are experienced professionals, possibly nearing retirement or transitioning into new career phases. Bestagers are characterized by their extensive work experience, expertise, and a different set of lifestyle and work preferences compared to younger generations. The term highlights the value and contributions of older workers, emphasizing their best qualities and the peak of their careers rather than focusing on age alone.


Do you have an idea how 'mod harbour' can practically be found by web version Harbour users?
Many power users of Harbour now belong to the Bestagers generation and are no longer flexible in adapting to new technologies.
Do you think there is even a solution for this?


ChatGPT
Yes, there are certainly ways that "mod harbour" can be practically found and used by users, even if many power users of Harbour are from the Bestagers generation and may be less flexible with new technologies. Here are some ideas on how this can be achieved:

1. Simple and Accessible Introduction
Step-by-step guides: Create easy-to-understand tutorials and documentation that explain how to install and use "mod harbour" step-by-step.
Video tutorials: Videos can often be an easier method to explain complex topics. Create short, concise videos that explain the basics of "mod harbour."
2. Community Support and Exchange
Forums and discussion groups: Set up forums or discussion groups where users can exchange ideas and support each other.
Mentoring programs: Experienced users could act as mentors and help new users with the first steps.
3. Compatibility and Transition
Backward compatibility: Ensure that "mod harbour" is largely compatible with existing Harbour applications to facilitate the transition.
Migration tools: Develop tools that help migrate existing Harbour applications to "mod harbour."
4. Workshops and Training
Online workshops: Organize regular online workshops where users can learn live and ask questions.
In-person training: Offer training specifically tailored to Bestagers, where learning can take place in a personal environment.
5. Marketing and Communication
Targeted marketing: Use targeted marketing to highlight the benefits of "mod harbour," especially regarding extending existing Harbour applications to the web.
Success stories: Share success stories and case studies of users who have successfully transitioned to "mod harbour."
6. Technical Support
Technical support: Provide comprehensive technical support that specifically addresses the needs of Bestagers.
FAQ and knowledge base: Create an extensive FAQ section and knowledge base that describes common issues and solutions.
7. Gradual Introduction of New Technologies
Gradual introduction: Introduce new technologies gradually to give users time to adapt to changes.
Gather feedback: Regularly gather feedback from users and adjust your approaches accordingly.
By combining these approaches, you can promote the adoption and use of "mod harbour" among existing Harbour users and make the transition as smooth as possible.

Do you think it even makes sense to have web versions of the user programs made with Harbour? Does the DBF file format still have a future at all?
ChatGPT
The need for web versions of user programs and the future of the DBF file format depend on several factors, including technical developments, user requirements, and market trends. Here are some considerations for both aspects:

Web Versions of User Programs
Advantages:
Accessibility: Web applications are accessible from anywhere and on various devices, which is especially beneficial in an increasingly mobile and connected world.
Maintenance and updates: It's easier to perform updates and maintenance centrally without requiring the user to update software locally.
Integration: Web applications can often be more easily integrated with other systems and services, which can be important for modern business applications.
Scalability: Web applications can be more easily scaled to serve a larger number of users.
Challenges:
Technical hurdles: The transition from traditional desktop applications to web applications can present technical challenges, especially for Bestagers.
Security concerns: Web applications require robust security measures to protect data from unauthorized access.
Internet dependency: Access to web applications depends on a stable internet connection, which could be an issue in some regions.
Future of the DBF File Format
Advantages:
Simplicity: The DBF format is simple to use and understand, making it attractive for many small to medium-sized applications.
Performance: For certain types of applications, especially those with low to medium data volumes, the DBF format can be efficient and fast.
Consistency: Many existing applications use the DBF format and work well with it, offering a degree of consistency and familiarity.
Challenges:
Modern requirements: Modern applications often require advanced features and better scalability, which the DBF format may not offer.
Compatibility: Integration with other modern database systems and technologies can be difficult.
Market trends: The market is increasingly moving towards relational databases and NoSQL solutions that offer better support and features.
Summary
Web Versions of Applications: If user requirements and market trends lean towards mobility, accessibility, and integration, web versions of applications could make sense. They offer many advantages, though they also come with some challenges. For Bestagers, it would be important to support this transition with adequate support and training.

DBF File Format: The DBF format can still be relevant for certain applications, especially where simplicity and consistency are valued. However, modern requirements and market trends might suggest the need to transition to more advanced database systems.

Ultimately, the decision depends on the specific requirements and circumstances of the users and applications. A hybrid approach, where existing DBF-based applications are gradually modernized while new applications are built on modern technologies from the start, might be sensible.

Do you think it makes sense to keep the FiveWin/Harbour syntax for screen programming for the web,
or should pure HTML be used here?




ChatGPT
The decision on whether to keep the FiveWin/Harbour syntax for screen programming on the web or switch to pure HTML depends on various factors. Here are some considerations:

Keeping the FiveWin/Harbour Syntax
Advantages:
Familiarity: Users who are already familiar with FiveWin/Harbour can apply their knowledge directly to web applications, reducing the learning curve.
Consistency: Existing codebases and programs can be more easily migrated and maintained if the syntax is retained.
Productivity: Developers with years of experience in FiveWin/Harbour can be more productive when working with familiar syntax.
Challenges:
Technical adjustments: Adapting the FiveWin/Harbour syntax to web technologies might bring technical complexity and limitations.
Performance and flexibility: The resulting web applications might not be as performant or flexible as those written directly in HTML and modern web technologies.
Compatibility: Integration with other web technologies and frameworks could be more challenging.
Using Pure HTML
Advantages:
Standardization: HTML is a standard for web development and is supported by all modern browsers.
Flexibility and performance: Pure HTML, combined with CSS and JavaScript, allows for the creation of highly interactive and performant web applications.
Ecosystem and tools: A wide range of tools, libraries, and frameworks (such as React, Angular, Vue.js) are available to ease the development and maintenance of web applications.
Challenges:
Learning curve: Developers who have only worked with FiveWin/Harbour will need to learn HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, which can initially be steep.
Migration: Migrating existing applications from FiveWin/Harbour to pure HTML-based applications can be time-consuming.
Productivity: Developers may be less productive initially until they become accustomed to the new technologies.
Hybrid Approach
A hybrid approach could be considered, where the existing FiveWin/Harbour syntax is retained during a transitional phase while new developments are carried out in pure HTML and modern web technologies.

Advantages:
Gradual transition: Existing applications can be gradually modernized, spreading out the risk and effort of migration.
Continuous learning: Developers can gradually learn new technologies without having to switch completely immediately.
Best of both worlds: It might be possible to leverage the strengths of both approaches while making the transition period as smooth as possible.

Conclusion
There is no one-size-fits-all answer, as the best approach depends heavily on the specific circumstances.
If your user base is heavily tied to the FiveWin/Harbour syntax and the learning curve is a major concern,
it might make sense to retain the existing syntax and plan for a gradual migration.

However, if flexibility, performance, and long-term maintainability are the primary concerns, switching to pure HTML and modern web technologies would be the better choice.
A hybrid approach could be a sensible compromise solution.
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby Carles » Mon May 20, 2024 5:14 am

God's word

C.
Salutacions, saludos, regards

"...programar es fácil, hacer programas es difícil..."

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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby Carles » Mon May 20, 2024 5:54 am

Hola,

Y cual es el problema de los Bestager’s de Harbour ? :D Yo pienso que te puedo contestar porque he experimentado esto aquí desde que empezamos la web y no tengo ninguna duda de ello. La mayoría de esta gente profesional experimentada, muchos a punto de jubilarse o en transición, ven como realmente hoy en dia es tan o igual de importante entrar en la web para dar soluciones a los clientes.

Y justamente en esta edad, se dan cuenta que invertir 2-3 años intensivos de aprender todo lo que envuelve este entorno se les hace una montaña, les da falta de confianza y ven que no lo conseguirán, por que esta inversión de tiempo en estudio no les sale a cuenta y… sobre todo ven imposible por si solos hacerlo.

Es así de fácil, si quieres web habrás de invertir años en aprender web, al igual que uno invirtió años en aprender win. Subestimar o creer que con un poco de html vas ha hacer tus programas web es equivocarse completamente.

ChatGpt habla mucho y parece el psicólogo, pero no creo que haya podido experimentar estas sensaciones y experiencias pero yo he visto y podido comprobar el perfil de usuario Harbour y creedme… A esta edad, dar el salto a la web es algo tan complejo y costoso que la mayoria de gente perfil Harbour lo ve inviable, vemos como avanza la tecnologia y las generaciones empujan por detrás y nos empujan a la salida. Quien quiera sobrevivir en esta encrucijada sabe que lo va a tener dificil… :roll:

Para mi, la pregunta y reto sabiendo esto es...como podemos hacer facil lo dificil ?



C.
Last edited by Carles on Fri May 24, 2024 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Salutacions, saludos, regards

"...programar es fácil, hacer programas es difícil..."

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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby Otto » Mon May 20, 2024 6:46 am

Hello Charly,

Thank you for your clarification.
Where I disagree with you is that web programming is difficult.
I think it's much simpler than what we've done so far.
I think it's important to outline the steps involved in a web program.
Your introduction with the V2Order example was great. Unfortunately, we did not continue from there.
This example actually included everything in principle, and you created, processed, and explained it in just 2 sessions.
index.html
access.prg
entry.prg
exit.prg
list.prg
login.prg
menu.prg
order.dbf
order.prg
public.prg
sessions.prg


Another problem is certainly that only a few have a mod harbour webserver and are also not willing to install one.
But without a server, it will not work.

Best regards,
Otto
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby sysctrl2 » Wed May 22, 2024 6:53 pm

Lo único que entendí es que ya estamos viejitos
:D :) :o :lol: :roll:
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby Otto » Thu May 23, 2024 10:41 am

Cesar,
During the peak of Clipper and other xBase languages in the 1980s and early 1990s, there was a considerable number of users. Clipper alone sold around 250,000 copies worldwide by 1991.
Given the popularity of other xBase languages such as dBase, FoxPro, and Visual FoxPro, the combined user base during this period was likely in the millions.

The idea of reviving a simple, compact database language like Clipper is fascinating, especially considering the growing need for efficient data management solutions.

Clipper's simplicity and compact nature made it popular. These qualities are still highly valued, especially by small businesses and individual developers who need fast and efficient database solutions.

Users of Microsoft Excel or Google Sheets could be a target audience, as they often look for more robust database solutions without the complexity of full-fledged database management systems.

mod harbour could be the key here.

Best regards,
Otto
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby sysctrl2 » Thu May 23, 2024 2:52 pm

Para pode competir con las nuevas tecnologías tenemos que ser compatibles con bootstrap

Image
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby Otto » Thu May 23, 2024 3:28 pm

Cesar,
Yes, that's us with mod_harbour.

Link in:

<!-- Bootstrap 5 -->
<link href="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/npm/bootstrap@5.3.x/dist/css/bootstrap.min.css" rel="stylesheet">
<script src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/npm/bootstrap@5.3.x/dist/js/bootstrap.bundle.min.js"></script>

Best regards,
Otto
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby sysctrl2 » Thu May 23, 2024 4:52 pm

Excelente eso le da una apariencia profesional, a las aplicaciones web :roll:
la web es el camino
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby Otto » Thu May 23, 2024 5:24 pm

Cesar,
I just reviewed the example from Charly that he created in a Friday meeting on Skype. It has everything needed for an application.
It could be easily further developed.
The meeting was, I believe, in February 2022.
The example was for mod harbour V2. I then rewrote it for the original mod harbour by FiveTech.

Now I made a quick attempt and linked Bootstrap.
It was just a quick test.

Best regards,
Otto

Image


Code: Select all  Expand view

function main()

local cHtml := ''

TEXT TO cHtml
<head>
    <title>App Order</title>
    <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0">     
   
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/npm/bootstrap@5.3.0/dist/css/bootstrap.min.css">
   
    <script src="https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/3.5.1/jquery.min.js"></script>
    <script src="https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jqueryui/1.12.1/jquery-ui.min.js"></script>
   
    <script src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/npm/bootstrap@5.3.0/dist/js/bootstrap.bundle.min.js"></script>
   
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/font-awesome/6.0.0-beta3/css/all.min.css" />
   
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="./assets/bootstrap.css">
   
    <style>
        body {
            max-width: 800px;
            margin: 0 auto;
        }
        .grid-container {
            display: grid;
            grid-template-columns: auto auto ;
            background-color: #2196F3;
            padding: 10px;
        }
        .grid-item {
            background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8);
            border: 1px solid rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8);
            padding: 20px;
            font-size: 30px;
            text-align: center;
        }
        .border-marine-blue {
            border-color: #2E5C6E !important; /* Marine blue color */
            border-width: 8px  !important; /* Thicker border */
        }
       
    </style>
</head> 


<body>
   
    <div class="container mt-5 border rounded p-4 border-marine-blue">
        <div class="text-center mb-4">
            <img src="logo.jpg" alt="Logo" class="img-fluid">
        </div>
        <h3 class="text-center">Login</h3>
        <hr>
       
        <form action="access.prg" method="POST">
            <div class="form-group row">
                <label for="username" class="col-sm-2 col-form-label">User name:</label>
                <div class="col-sm-10">
                    <input type="text" class="form-control" id="username" name="user" required>
                </div>
            </div>
            <div class="form-group row">
                <label for="password" class="col-sm-2 col-form-label">Password:</label>
                <div class="col-sm-10">
                    <input type="password" class="form-control" id="password" name="psw" required>
                </div>
            </div>
            <div class="form-group row mt-4">
                <div class="col-sm-10 offset-sm-2">
                    <button type="submit" class="btn btn-primary">Login</button>
                </div>
            </div>
        </form>
       
        <p><i>For this demo please use:</i></p>
        <p><b>
            user <br>
            1234
        </b></p>
    </div>
   
    ENDTEXT
   
    ?? cHtml    
   
    retu nil
   
    //-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------//
   
    {% MemoRead( hb_GetEnv( "PRGPATH" ) + "/sessions.prg" ) %}

 
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby sysctrl2 » Thu May 23, 2024 6:30 pm

Buenísimo, Bootstrap ya va en la versión 5.x
https://getbootstrap.com/docs/versions/
saludos !
Cesar Cortes Cruz
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' Sin +- FWH es mejor "
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby Otto » Thu May 23, 2024 10:22 pm

Image
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby sysctrl2 » Fri May 24, 2024 12:44 am

excelente ! Otto
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby Otto » Fri May 24, 2024 6:08 am

Cesar, do you use mod harbour or PHP yourself? Have you installed a mod server from FiveTech? I could provide you with this test file, and we could make improvements step by step together.

Best regards,
Otto
********************************************************************
mod harbour - Vamos a la conquista de la Web
modharbour.org
https://www.facebook.com/groups/modharbour.club
********************************************************************
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Re: Mod Harbour: ChatGPT Provides Detailed Answers

Postby sysctrl2 » Fri May 24, 2024 4:12 pm

Hola Otto,
yo uso PHP, con un servidor contabo.com Linux
sin embargo es una buena idea tener un servidor
con "modharbour" para realizar pruebas.

Saludos
Cesar Cortes Cruz
SysCtrl Software
Mexico

' Sin +- FWH es mejor "
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