Metro style

[Rick Lipkin]

Reinaldo

Thanks for the quick answer, that means perhaps commands and functions for WinRT can be used like Antonio has created FiveWin for Win32\64 .. basically as wrappers ?

I guess the next question is a native WinRt application an .exe or some other run-time executable ?? I know Android tablets and their OS do not use .exe's as their compiled program which opens up a whole other 'can of worms' for compatibility across platforms.

Rick Lipkin

[reinaldocrespo]

The stated and overt aim of MS with winrt is to make applications compatible across any windows device. They are not aiming at iOs or Android. I don't see that happening ever. There are some tools out there that will let you write once and deploy to any device. For example FlashBuilder from Adobe lets you write JavaScript that can be deployed to windows Phone, iOs, Android, blackberry. But that has nothing to do with WinRt or MS. I've seen FlashBuilder,but still don't know how to use it.

However, winrt does promise simplification on the portability of applications across tablets, desktops, and phones running windows rt (windows .

Again, a win32/64 app does not run under WinRt. Windows 8 allows you to "switch" from traditional Win32/64 to WinRT. AFAIK, you can't be on both at the same time.

That's how I think it all works,


Reinaldo.

[hag]

I'm following the thread. My simple question will our 32bit FWH programs run under windows 8?

[Antonio Linares]

I'm following the thread. My simple question will our 32bit FWH programs run under windows 8?

Yes

[hag]

[Otto]

Norberto,
Thank you. I ordered 2012 Server yesterday.
Do you know if one can install a true WINRT app without Windows Store on a 2012 Server?
Have you made yourself a WINRT program yet. Is it possible to access dbf-files.
Thanks in advance
Otto

[TimStone]

It seems like we've been down this road before in many posts.

I believe it is wrong to build Win RT look alike apps. Even if you can mimic the controls, you are creating something that simply will not run on many newer devices. The "Metro", or Modern UI, is for specific purposes. I spend a lot of time with Windows developers, and the products that are being built are small apps, for specific purposes, just like on iOS devices.

We have a fantastic product for "forms" applications, and that is what most of us create and maintain. Even Microsoft didn't abandon that. Office 2013, their major productivity package, is run in Desktop mode ! You can study it for free. The one thing we could try to do is use the new 2013 Style ! In Visual Studio it is known as "Cosmopolitan" and is the Modern style. It would modernize all of our applications to the very latest standard.

I will disagree with the comment that "Build Once, Use Everywhere" is not possible with Visual Studio. Take a close look at Lightswitch, an IDE in Visual Studio, that allows the creation of desktop, or web, applications with a single selection on the properties menu. It also uses oData, so virtually any data resource can be used ( and you can have multiple data sources in the same application ). There is plenty of documentation available on line for all the improvements in Visual Studio.

My point is simple. Our legacy apps can continue to be modern using the same tools we have relied upon for years. However, if you want to do RT apps with the modern interface, the success is far beyond just the UI. I'd suggest those are best built with Visual Studio because the capabilities extend well beyond what we do with our forms apps. Its not really about the UI. Its about the underlying communications, data resources, exchange of data, and so much more. It would take Antonio, and the other contributors, years to try and incorporate all of that into FiveWin, and that time, I believe, is best spent keeping what we have modernized to the greatest degree possible.

Tim

[Otto]

Hello Tim,

I bet the Word division has the same problems as we.
People try to stick with the things they are familiar to.
Sure there are still developers coming from WORD 6 or WINWORD 2003 and then switching to new things is difficult.
Best regards,
Otto

[Antonio Linares]

Dear Otto,

I told you...

I needed years to manage Mac and Linux to "open" my mind and be able to feel fine using no matter what OS

The worst problem Microsoft has is Microsoft itself, as people are extremelly used to Windows...

[TimStone]

Otto,

I don't think its a problem, actually. I spend a lot of time with Windows developers now ( Visual Studio 2012 actually ), and the feelings seem to be pretty universal. They will continue to develop desktop applications because of their commercial value, and now many will supplement this with apps that interface to the larger desktop apps from RT devices, or straight RT apps that are mostly used for light interaction of data, or data display.

For many years my clients have wanted to be able to do some of their work on a tablet. Mainly this involves tasks ( like creating a workorder ) while in face to face contact with a client, while standing by a vehicle they are about to service and inputting information while doing a physical inspection, or when performing inventory control tasks.

I don't hear of any plans by Microsoft to replace the desktop apps with all RT apps. In fact, the latest Visual Studio significantly embraces desktop apps with new capabilities and features. I do see a clear methodology in all of this no matter what the critics may say. I also see a continuing role for Harbour/FiveWin for many years to come, but I see it in the Desktop side rather than the RT app development.

Here is a thought. Antonio developed a FiveWin app for iOS. How many people on this forum have been actively creating apps for iPad/iPhone with FiveWin ? Its been many years and I'm thinking we are not seeing a lot of work being done there with any serious applications.

In any case, Microsoft will not even judge this new direction for 3 years. They have made it know that they see any transition to RT taking at least that long to get a solid footing. They are looking long term.

Tim

[TimStone]

Antonio,

As a consumer, I use Windows and iOS. Many of my clients won't move out of DOS. I see the benefit of each of them.

It took me less than one day to become comfortable with Windows 8. Now it is on every device I own ( except for the Apple products ). Even my phone is Win 7 and I like it better than any I have ever owned.

Comfort is a function of attitude. As developers, we get the most pleasure from innovation. You are certainly an example of that because you always take a lot of pride ( well deserved ) when introducing new capabilities for us to use.

Microsoft will be fine. I'm more concerned for Apple. Their stock has been highly over valued by investors, and it will fall ( through no fault of their own ). The expectations are way beyond real for them to come up with amazing new things. People say they are weaker because the iPhone 5 didn't have great new features. Instead it relied on stable product enhancements ( in most cases ). In the public eye, they could be damaged although they still work hard to provide a good product and good service. Microsoft doesn't play in that game ( pleasing investors ) and instead is working hard to expand into the new reality of cloud and server based computing. I believe they will be fine.

Tim

[Antonio Linares]

Dear Tim,

At this stage, I bet that Microsoft has no idea at all about the future...

They built Metro as a reaction to Apple iOS and Google Android. The facts are that 68% of the smartphones are ruled by Android, and 17% goes to iOS:

Here are IDC's figures for worldwide smartphone unit sales and market share in the second quarter of 2012, by operating system.
— Android (Google Inc.) — 104.8 million units, 68.1 percent share (46.9 percent a year earlier)
— iOS (Apple Inc.'s iPhone) — 26.0 million units, 16.9 percent share (18.8 percent a year earlier)
— BlackBerry (Research in Motion Ltd.) — 7.4 million units, 4.8 percent share (11.5 percent a year earlier)
— Symbian (mostly used by Nokia Corp.) — 6.8 million units, 4.4 percent share (16.9 percent a year earlier)
— Windows (Microsoft Corp.) — 5.4 million units, 3.5 percent share (2.3 percent a year earlier)
— Linux — 3.5 million units, 2.3 percent share (3.0 percent a year earlier)
— Others — 0.1 million units, 0.1 percent share (0.5 percent a year earlier)

In my opinion the best evolution has been done by Android. Android 4 is a great operating system, sources are available, lots of manufacturers using it...

You can use Android on a PC (see Android x86 project) and you see many of the principles of Metro, but without all that never-ending talk and endless requirements (today I discovered that I can not use the Win8 phone emulator on my iMacs). And Android is free (no costs, full source code)

Time will tell. My bet: Google is the cleverest player...

[TimStone]

Antonio,

We both realize nothing can be free. How would you live if Five Win were free ? How would any of us survive ? In the end, nothing is free.

Many companies do use Android, and lots of phone carriers push those phones for higher profits. However, customer loyalty is not strong, and people will switch brands quickly. Also, you often have to get a new phone to get new features because of the many flavors of the Droid software. For those using Win 7 phones, and iPhones, loyalty is very high. When comparing real world performance, the Win 7 phones smoke the droids on speed and performance. There are a ton of junk apps on droids. In addition, Apple has them clearly as a target.

Corporate IT departments are looking from Blackberry to Windows, with some accommodation for iPhones. They are NOT looking at Droids. Several studies recently have pointed this out.

Yes, Droid sales are higher right now but its because that is what the salespeople are pushing ! Its not about quality, need, or performance. Its all about the commission they receive which is higher from a droid because of the non-fee for licenses.

I own a Win 7 phone. It is so much easier to do anything, and much faster, than iphones or Droids. When we go out and someone is looking for a place to eat, I give them a two minute head start, then I do the search, and provide the options in seconds, and they are still waiting to see the initial list. Meanwhile, I have the names, map to the locations, phone number, and even reservation option, right in front of me.

Spend some time with a Win 7 or 8 phone day to day and you will see why it is gaining such positive reviews. Even with the release of the new Galaxy, and the iPhone 5, reviewers are encouraging people to wait so they can get their hands on the new WIn 8 Nokia, Samsung, or HTC models ... all which have very strong, positive, reviews.

I think one day we will look back at Google and say "they tried ... but not very well"

[Otto]

About Google
Please be aware that Google search is nowadays always localized this means you get not objective results.
You get results that fit best to your location mostly these results are from local newspapers or localized information.
I mean if you search in Spain for most used handy you get results which information providers like newspapers, etc. bring to your country. You should serve through different vpn servers with different locations (New York, London, Berlin, Rom, etc.) so you would get more objective results.
Best regards,
Otto

[TimStone]

BTW, did you know the co-founder of Apple now owns a Windows phone ?