FiveWIN xHarbour Dev enviornment in Tablet

[George]

Hi Otto,
I was thinking that a low cost android tablet can be used as part of a complete system: Hardware + Software.
By example a Point of Sale for small businesses (like a convenience store) that includes scanner, POS printer and cash drawer.

Regards,

George.

[Otto]

George,
we thought of that too.
But I think you can use the device only in the way Antonio said remote.
There are no interfaces on this device (COM, USB). So to access a printer and a scanner is not easy.
Also a 9” screen is small. The whole device (Q3) for such a purpose is a little bit lightweight.
I wanted to use this device for the check-in to handle it out to the guests that they can fill in their personal data.
But 9” is to small.
Best regards,
Otto

[George]

Thanks Otto for your feedback.
You are right about hardware mentioned above is not suitable for a POS system.
However we can expect. maybe in a few months because Droid systems fast growth, to have available a hardware with:

4 USB ports
12-14" Touchscreen monitor
1 GB RAM
40 GB HD

lets say for $300-350.

Although this is not a powerful hardware the important here is the FiveDroid. This software development tool will generate, probably, a small EXE versus the EXE generated by others software development platforms.
This, added to the smaller size and speed of DBF or ADS database versus SQL database used by others POS, could help us to create a complete POS system (Hardware + Software) for less than $700.

Regards,


George

[Otto]

George,
we use for such system this ALL in one PC
hardware:
http://sys.eu.shuttle.com/productListing.jsf
Regards,
Otto

[TimStone]

George, Otto:

I am just finishing a project.

My clients run our software on full size workstations, and usually have a server. In some cases, those workstations are desktops, but now All In One's are a nice alternative, and some use larger screen notebooks. Often times they use other products also, so many are setting up dual monitor systems.

None of this can be used on a tablet. There is simply too much data to handle, and thus the display will be too small.

My project is to make a subset of the main client. I actually do this within the one executable. When installed on a tablet, they can select that display option, and the information that shows is appropriate for tablet use.

I am using a Samsung Series 7 Slate. It is a full Windows 8 Pro OS. It networks fine, and because it is wireless, it can access the main server without difficulty. The Slate sits in a charging dock, and from there it can be displayed on a larger monitor. It also has Bluetooth for a mouse and keyboard. When a client arrives, the service writer can grab the slate, go to the customer and discuss the service needs, start the workorder, and then send the client to the counter for a printed estimate. It can also be used for counter sales ( POS ), and for roving through the inventory checking status. These are all appropriate uses in my clients' environment.

I thought of using an iPad, but I would then have to go to the cloud, or move to all Apple software, and that is not appealing.

I will not use Android devices. Cost is not the only factor to consider when working with serious clients who want quality and reliability.
'
Tim

[Antonio Linares]

http://www.iclarified.com/26167/eric-schmidt-on-android-vs-ios-were-winning-that-war-pretty-clearly-now

3Q12 Market share:

Android 72,4 %
iOS 13,9 %
Microsoft 2,4 %

[Antonio Linares]

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2231503/google-shuns-windows-8-for-app-development

[norberto]

http://www.iclarified.com/26167/eric-schmidt-on-android-vs-ios-were-winning-that-war-pretty-clearly-now

3Q12 Market share:

Android 72,4 %
iOS 13,9 %
Microsoft 2,4 %

Antonio, are you sure? we talking about tablets, this numbers is about smartphones. in tablets, apple is the king, remember, MS start in tablets this year (october) and in smartphones have 2 years only...

In tablets , Apple have +- 80% marketshare.

We have to consider another factor: patents, as we know has a patent war in progress, what is the result? We still don't know. If Android loses this battle, will have to pay for apple and microsoft, which will make more expensive the value of equipment, leaving less attractive.
Note that 16 android manufacturers already pay microsoft for copyright, including htc, Samsung, and many others.

Here I leave a few titles on the war of patents:

Apple downplays meaning of tentative rejection of 'Steve Jobs' touch patent in letter to ITC
Posted: 12 Dec 2012 11:25 AM PST

Android appears to infringe Nokia patent relating to multifunctional phone-computer USB connections
Posted: 12 Dec 2012 08:14 AM PST

After series of German wins over Google, Microsoft signs up two local Android patent licensees
Posted: 11 Dec 2012 07:05 AM PST

BlackBerry Enterprise Solution security feature may infringe Nokia patent
Posted: 11 Dec 2012 03:23 AM PST

---
font : foss patents

[Adolfo]

Norberto...

Are you selling Windows?
There's a bit of missunderstanding from your point of view of what IS REALLY HAPPENING IN ACTUAL MARKET.

Android is becomming more and more robust, is used even in TV's (Smart Tv's), flawless when working with a linux server on the back.
On the other side, we have that windows servers are lossing share very fast. Imagine that Linux Kernel 3.7 and Samba 4 can fully REPLACE ACTIVE DIRECTORY with no need to PAY for licenses to M$. Most of virtualization development is done on LINUX, so no more Windows, blue screens, viruses...
I read you on a post where you said that Windows 8 is so secure because it has WINDOWS SECURITY ESSENTIALS as an integrated solution...
Well, this is what really happens http://vr-zone.com/articles/microsoft-s-security-essentials-loses-certification-after-badly-failing-av-test/18117.html, is the worst "solution" in the market. Windows 8 numbers are great, but..... have you asked how many systems have been downgraded to windows 7 ?

Integration is a bit challenging, but I'd prefer to use an Android Tablet, fast, secure, cheap, instead.

If you like a complete "Windows like" environment in all your development, ok is up to you. I'd rather prefer to use The best server (Linux), the best smartphone platform (Android), the best web development languaje (JAVA) and the best desktop development mix (Borland C + Harbour + fivewin)

Windows is widely used, but not the best.

[Marcelo Via Giglio]

Adolfo,

+1

I completely agree

saludos

Marcelo

[norberto]

I am selling solutions, preferably with the best technology for each case.
And in my case, my clients don't want solutions based on Linux, Android, they want a support, warranty, safety, things that at the moment we can only have with Microsoft (yet) . Linux only in some Web servers and print servers.

and I personally think that, if a company cannot buy the software, also will not be able to afford his work of programmer.

This also becomes clear in various graphics applications sales in the various marketplaces:

Appls free: Android 45% Apple 26% Windows 21%
appls < = 5$: Android 36% Apple 51% Windows 40%
Appls 5$ ~ 25$: Android 15% Apple 19% Windows 28%

as can be inferred by the numbers above, as it grows the value of the application, the number of users who use android buys less.

do you have any problem personally with microsoft? because generally who writes Microsoft as M$ seems to have a certain hate.
But if in case of you, this expansion of Android seems to be an opportunity, and are going to make money, go ahead ... good luck.

If I follow what's going on, of course I do:
Android growing in low-cost devices that will never be updated to the last version, with safety defects, the developers going to the edge of madness, because each Android version is incompatible with the previous one. and serious companies, seeking alternatives, and these alternatives do not seem to be in android.

Why are we here paid to Antonio FHW? (x)harbour is free ... just like Linux and Android, we can download (x)harbour, modify, use, without paying anything.
Why are we here? because we want to support, updates, new versions, improvements , someone to blame.
The same case that large companies want: someone to complain or blame, Support, etc.. and why they prefer even Microsoft (yet).

but emphasizing and repeating, depends on each case, whether for your business, Android and Linux solves, great! for my case, I still need microsoft solutions.

Best Regards to all.

[TimStone]

The articles links were about smartphones. In the US, the carriers push Android phones because they have higher profits. Also, from what I'm seeing, there is a faster turnover ( upgrading to new devices ) with Android. Most people I know go into a phone store, and the clerk sells them what earns him the highest commission, never focusing on what is the actual best phone for their needs.

Try looking at the user satisfaction ratings. iPhones and Windows Phones get high 90% satisfaction ratings. Android ... not very good.
Now look at performance. In challenges with "on the street" people, Windows phones are much faster and more effective. Apple is #2, and Android ... not so good.

Go into a cell phone store here, and what do you see. Lots of Android models ( no licensing for the OS, cheaper to make, so higher profits ). Then you search for the Win phones or the iPhones. Marketing drives the numbers, based on what our cell phone companies actually provide. The CEO of my provider had an "attitude" about Microsoft so he blocked newer Win Phones. As a result a lot of people are moving to their competitor.

When it comes to the apps, I constantly hear about all the junk in the Droid marketplace. That doesn't happen with WinPhone or iPhone. Those apps are actually tested.

Do I care if Google doesn't make a gmail or search app for Win 8 ? Of course not. If I want free email, I'll go with Outlook.com and get a more powerful, feature rich, option. Corporations don't use gmail, so they won't care. As for search, Bing gives me results I prefer over Google.

Finally, NOTHING is actually FREE. Do you work full time for free ? That's not likely unless you are independently wealthy. When you see services for FREE, you need to check deeper to see what the true cost is, and then decide if that's worth it. When deciding what you are going to use, there are two options: Quality or Price. You won't get both. If you could, then FWH would be available for $ 9 /year !

Tim

[George]

I will not use Android devices. Cost is not the only factor to consider when working with serious clients who want quality and reliability.

Tim,
1) Why do you think Android OS is not suitable to develop good and quality software? Why tablets running Android OS are different to tablets running Windows OS?
Proven that Antonio can finish a FiveDroid version we will be able to develop the same FiveWin software as ever.
Maybe we cannot use all windows controls but we can find a way to substitute them.

2) Mentioning "quality and reliability" versus cost could have no sense. Do you remember, the hardware running your software, 10 or 15 years ago?

3) Regarding the screen size, see below a POS interface (just a prototype) designed for 10.5" screen size:


The bottom line is:

A) Android OS is reliable and is being used worldwide by millions of computers (including smartphones that are also computers)
B) Tablets are computers (no toys)
C) If FiveTechSoft can deliver FiveDroid, we will be able to develop quality software for tablets with Android OS. No doubt about this.

Regards,

George

[hmpaquito]

George,

Maybe we cannot use all windows controls but we can find a way to substitute them

Neither Windows 8 can not use all the controls 'Windows'

Regards

[TimStone]

George,

My views are all derived from 30 years of experience !

Yes, I do remember the computers I used 10 or 15 years ago. I also remember the ones I used 30 years ago. That says a lot since my memory is not as good as it used to be.

Windows 8 RT apps do have a more limited range of controls, but more are being added every week. The update schedule for Visual Studio 2012 is now "frequent" and their first update was already released, though the product was only put up for sale recently. Those updates include new features and controls. 3rd party vendors are also adding controls.

Your "plans" require Antonio to create a FWH for Android. What if he doesn't ? There is only so much time available for him to work, and he also deserves some time for rest and relaxation.

It is true that many host services focus on Linux servers ? Every single company exec I talked to stated honestly it was because it is cheaper, and they never assert it is "better". Even with that, most of those hosts have pretty terrible support services. When it comes to in house services, businesses tend to use Windows servers in my market place.

As for market share, you may be talking about new sales, but windows has a licensed user base of over 1,000,000,000 computers ... plus who knows how many illegal copies. Sorry, but neither Apple or Android even comes close !

Most Android and Apple applications, from what I see, are "consumers" not businesses. They also want cheap apps. $10 US is about the peak people will pay. That is what Norberto was trying to point out. In an app store, you net $ 7 on one of those, so you would have to sell over 1,000 per month just to pay the salary for one programmer here. That doesn't include the cost of the development tools, equipment, facilities, etc. You must have a very popular program to make any money in those marketplaces.

If you disagree, please show me the business model and the financial gain you believe you can receive. I've run a business for 30 years. The numbers are what speak to me about what is successful.

Tim