FiveWeb (FiveWin days are numbered)

[cdmmaui]

Dear Antonio,

I am very interested to know if there are plans to move forward with FiveWeb?

I honestly believe days are numbered for Windows based applications. We have more and more customers asking for web based or mobile applications with web services to exchange data with third party applications.

If FiveWeb had the following functionality (partial list - it would be nice for others to provide input as well) I would be willing to dive in and convert existing production applications

1. Style sheets (CSS)
2. MS SQL, MySQL data integration
3. Field validation (including data look-up and data populate, auto-complete, date picker, data validation, etc.)
4. Create PDF documents (including non-standard paper sizes)
5. Create XLS documents
6. Ability to print to locally connected printer utilizing device OS print system (including non-standard paper sizes)
7. Ability to determine browser type to determine if user is on desktop or mobile device
8. Ability to access local resources on a mobile device (camera, bluetooth, signature capture, barcode scanning, RFID scanning)
9. Ability to integrate to local e-mail and calendar application

It would be nice to have clear instructions for server setup as well for Windows and Linux servers.

Just my two cents.

Sincerely,

[Colin Haig]

Hi Daryl

I was thinking along the same lines as you in regards to web apps but I have recently convinced a new client who was using a
web application (job costing integrating with quickbooks) to replace it with my windows application - which is also a job costing
system ( also integrates with quickbooks and myob).
1 -they found the web application slow and frustrating. (Hosted app written in PHP using a Postgres Database)
2 - Expensive 1 user $200.00 AUD per month plus $50.00 AUD per month for accounting link - add another user double that per month - that's not including the
original purchase cost of the software - also there is an additional once only fee for every user added.
3 - They don't have any control over their data - they can export some of their data to excel but not all of it.

I still think Windows apps have a few years of life left.

Cheers

Colin

[Antonio Linares]

Darrell,

I am sorry but FiveWeb development is stopped by now. I am focused on FiveWin as I have been several months off cause my father death, and now my mother is also having hard days...

and I also agree with Colin, desktop apps will remain very well alive for many years. If something works, it is not going to be replaced. Look at the iphone and ipad, they use desktop apps

[George]

Regarding "FiveWin days are numbered"

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated (Mark Twain)

Regards,

George

[RDFernandez]

Sorry, but this mean ?
"Los dias de Fivewin estan contados" ?

Saludos y gracias.

[Rick Lipkin]

To All

I think web applications vs Windows apps are based on the 'eye of the beholder'. Yes, everywhere you turn it is dot net this, got be done in C#, 'hiring' dot net programmers !

Let me share some of my experiences .. I left my previous job around 2009 and the IS department was re-writing a payment application to replace a ( bloated ) Delphi windows app. They chose to re-write the program using C# because ( they felt ) it was easier to manage in one place because they did not have to worry about desktop run-time support and copying executables around. ( with fivewin, (x)Harbour, Ms Sql+ADo, who needs a run-time client ?)

As of today, four years later, the application is being ( semi ) rolled out to be tested in one district. Problems include 'browser render issues' between chrome, firefox and IE.. other problems include 'well it worked yesterday, but for some reason, not today' .. 'awkard' user interface which doesn't much lend itself to a database app.

Lets see .. roughly speaking we are looking at (just the payroll alone) for developers, lets say 70k per year times 4 developers at an approx cost of 280k .. not to mention the project managers, IT support staff, hardware cost for the Sql database .. lets just call it 400k as a conservative estimate.. now, if I were the BOSS and I had to pay for the cost, realizing ( now ) at the end of the day, all I have is 400k in sunk costs and relatively nothing to show for it... I think I would call my folks together and have a little heartfelt chat about getting 'back to ( windows ) basics'.

Lets see ... Does 'healthcare.gov' mean anything to anyone ? .. and we are not even done paying for that mess yet!

Rick Lipkin

[hag]

As I was reading you post all I could think of was the ObamaCare web site. 600 Million to develop and it doesn't work.

[HunterEC]

Rick:

Sharp thinking, bulls eye ! Congratulations, excellent summary. And let us do not forget the mess called Windows 8.x Even Microsoft is distancing from it. They will announce Windows 9 in April.

[lucasdebeltran]

Hello,

I actually think that desktop applications still have a long journey.

However, it is necessary that certain aspects (eg. Browsing clients, add a client, a budget, etc.), can be accessed from a tablet and from the mobile phone itself. For example, when the user is out of the office, etc.

[TimStone]

Web based apps are certainly a "discussion", but in my experience, they are mostly promoted by people with great tech skills and very little understanding of what business software needs to work properly. I have spent 2 years watching the "evolution" of Visual Studio, and the Microsoft development tools. They are good, but in the end, it boils down to web based apps needing to be HTML5 and Java ... and therein lies the major problems.

Web based apps are fine for little utilities, but when it comes to a full featured program like most of us develop, the future is still on computers. Yes, tablets are what people want now because they are new and portable. However, after a little time of using them, they get set aside for a notebook or desktop to get the "real work" done.

Web based apps will be expensive, and they will be slower. However, there is a great option. Microsoft's Office 365 subscription is affordable, and powerful. It is still a Desktop app, though you can get an ipad app to do some of the more common work. You can now write programs that will use it's sharepoint resources and allow a variety of business apps to integrate seamlessly with Word, Excel, and Outlook. The end result can be quite powerful. What makes it really work for businesses is that when the internet connection is not present, the user can still work locally, and when the connection returns, the cloud server is updated.

I don't see any hurry to move to cloud based apps, but yes, they are coming. They will not be, though, web based interfaces. App interfaces ( or full programs ) will reside on the device and share data stores via the cloud. Think about it. No one wants to input data on a web browser running on a handheld device. They want apps that display the data in larger format, cleanly, on the device. For most of us, the amount of data that needs to be displayed does not lend itself to the smaller devices.

Finally, for my clients who want to use tablets at their place of business, I developed a subset of my main program which displays data appropriate for a tablet ( using the available real estate ), and then had them buy a Windows tablet. They connect via Wi-Fi to the network, and the speed is very good.

Remember, our clients run businesses, so they are not too interested in toys. We still have a bright future serving their needs.

[George]

They are good, but in the end, it boils down to web based apps needing to be HTML5 and Java ... and therein lies the major problems.

Tim, I agree. Serious business needs serious software.
I think we can see more developers offering cloud database in addition (or instead) to local database, but desktop app., because it's more powerful and versatile, will reign over web app.

Regards,

George.

[cdmmaui]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for your input. I agree with everyone on a lot of points. However, we have a lot of customers asking that our major application be converted to a web based application. Our competitors are working on converting their legacy applications to web based applications and we must move in that direction in order to be competitive and meet global requirements. I especially agree with Rick and the "eye of the beholder".

Thanks again for your feedback.

Sincerely,

[Antonio Linares]

Darrell,

I would suggest as a first step to modify your app to use MySQL (You may use TDolphin library or ADO, in case that you may want to try with different databases engines).

Once you have it, then you can share your data from the desktop app and the web and this would make your customers quite happy as it is a perfect way to migrate to the web but providing desktop compatibility

I am busy (right now) helping some customers on this, but we could talk in case you want me to help you. Anyhow, you always have these forums where lots of examples and experienced MySQL/ADO users may help you too

[cdmmaui]

Hi Antonio,

Thanks. We have started migrating to MS SQL.

Sincerely,

[TimStone]

One of the reasons I stayed with DBF is that it is very easy to fix a damaged file, or roll back just one file to a backup, without messing up all the other data.
It is my understanding with SQL that the only available fix is to restore an older backup.

Example: I have a DBF file used for configuration. It is one of 140 DBF files used by my main application. If I convert this to SQL, then it becomes one table in an SQL database. If a glitch occurs and contaminates the config file, I can restore the one from the previous day and none of the other data is changed.

Because I don't see any utilities to do this in SQL, it is my understanding ( perhaps incorrect ) that I would have to restore a "known good" database, with all tables included. This would be from a previous date, and then my client would have to re-enter everything added since that date.

Is this correct ? If not, how can I repair just a single SQL table ?