OT: Windows 10 and FWH

[TimStone]

Today Microsoft announced Windows 10. It goes into public preview tomorrow so people can review it and submit their input. It will not be released until later in 2015, after the developers work closely with the users to make it a great universal experience.

The key element is that it will be ONE OS across ALL devices, from phone to desktop ( and media systems ). In addition, there will be one Store for all devices, which leads to buy once, use everywhere.

A major focus is to have one universal system for business and consumers. This will allow the enterprise, small business, and individual to use their devices for personal, and work, settings. Universal apps will be a major focus of the Build Conference in April 2015.

Why do I mention this ? Antonio has started the process of blending FiveWin / Harbour with Microsoft Visual Studio. As we look to the future, it is VERY bright. We can build apps for the progressive users who like the Modern Interface, and yet still meet the needs of those who want the full desktop experience ( enhanced in Windows 10, with the inclusion of an expanded desktop Start button and task bar ). Our progress together will be greater as more people start using FWH with Harbour and MSVS 2013 ( or 2014 ).

Tim

[cnavarro]

Tim
Strongly agree
Thanks for your news

[RAMESHBABU]

As we look to the future, it is VERY bright. We can build apps for the progressive users who like the Modern Interface, and yet still meet the needs of those who want the full desktop experience ( enhanced in Windows 10, with the inclusion of an expanded desktop Start button and task bar ). Our progress together will be greater as more people start using FWH with Harbour and MSVS 2013 ( or 2014 ).

I wish that all FiveWinners will become younger with this and can strongly compete with the modern demands. I welcome the youngest to join us more to take the advantage of our powerful FiveWin.

Thanks Mr.Tim for the news.

-Ramesh Babu P

[TimStone]

Ramesh,

I may well be the oldest person in this group at 68, but I challenge my mind to stay fresh by constantly exploring new technologies. It is not always easy. Age does take a toll on memory. I'm currently studying C# and SQL in depth, and work with Visual Studio 2013. I've done some projects with VS LightSwitch and participated in their community. I've been encouraged to also consider apps for WinPhone 8.1. That's the "new technology". My income, though, is based on FW.

FW is a great option for creating complete solutions. When I started programming about 33 years ago, I quickly learned that people in business wanted one, unified, solution, not a collection of apps that did different tasks. FW has never let me down with my ability to create a "total package" that is fully integrated.

I'm not sure if people new to programming will find us, but many who have a background in xBase should consider the options here. They are still strong and viable.

Tim

[Rick Lipkin]

To All

It is amazing to me how the Dot Net culture has dominated the main-stream programming landscape. If you look at the job boards for Programmers or Application Analyst, you MUST have experience with Asp.net or C#. It absolutely amazes me how the Corporate culture has embraced database Web applications via C#. I just don't get it.

When I left my large SC State Agency in 2009, the IS department was in the process of re-writing a simple Receipt for Services Delphi Windows application. Granted, the Agency made a significant investment in dB2 and the Delphi app had to use the IBM OleDb client which had to be installed on every desktop of each user.. To minimize that 'setup' nightmare, the Agency ( once again ) invested in a Citrix farm to be able to present applications to each desktop from one server which had all the needed dB2 client and executable at a VERY hefty cost to the tax payer.

To mitigate the Agency's cost, the new direction was to re-write the Delphi App in Asp.net and C# and make a Database web application thereby allowing the application to run in any desktop web browser.

Over the years, many challenges arose such as :

1) Browser rendering problems, works one day on IE, the next day on FireFox and then they decided on Chrome
2) Problems with instability between the test environment and production.
3) the high turn over rate of application developers for lack of progress.

Looking back at the project from today's perspective, the application has not fully been rolled out in production and what is in production is un-reliable and staff have to keep paper ledgers on account balances.

Looking at the personnel cost of 4 or more programmers on staff at any one time ( lets say ) at 50k per year over 4 years, you have a development cost of nearly 200k per year, not to mention the Sql support staff, project managers and equipment costs. One could easily conclude that over the last 4 years the entire Dot Net project cost could easily top and probably has exceeded the 500k mark.

I recently wrote and won a bid spec for a very nice Windows invoicing and accounts receivable ( (x)Harbour and FiveWin ) application for a ( more conservative ) State Agency with these specs:

Programming Services to write and deliver a Windows accounts receivable application as specified in the attached. The application must be capable to be loaded onto the Agency's share drive and accessed by only authorized users with a user-id and password or the use of SSO ( single sign-on ) technology. The program is to run on any desktop Microsoft operating system to include Windows XP through Windows 8.1.

Database: MS Access of Sql Server .. Agency's choice

The program shall be a monolithic compiled .exe with very few if any associated dynamic libraries ( .dll ) and SHALL NOT use any DOT NET run-time desktop support client.

All appropriate personal or sensitive data will be encrypted in the proper tables.

I wrote,tested and delivered the program in less than three months and the Agency has been very happy with the results. Take another look at the specs .. notice I put 'NO DOT NET' using a single compiled .exe capable of being deployed anywhere in the Agency state wide with just a short-cut on the desktop ( no client or run-time setup needed ) ... now that is a POWERFUL testimonial to open source and FiveWin.

But unfortunately, the Main-stream Corporate culture, continues to embrace DOT NET and spend money on outragious ways to deploy their applications to centralize and minimize the Achilles heel of the .Net Framework.

Again, I enjoy this language and the POWERFUL statement than can be made for the above spec. Nobody else can make the claim for the use of a single self contained Windows .exe with no external run-time, dot net framework or OLE client to talk to MS Sql Server or Ms Access... and as for creating database web sites .. you be the judge:

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/b ... l?page=all

Rick Lipkin

[hmpaquito]

My question is:

What api will use to program in Windows 10? ¿Win 32? ¿Metro UI?

If Microsoft wanted to connect with the user base for Windows 7 ... Will you link to the Microsoft Win32 programmers or return us to stop lying again? Why close the Microsoft Win32 API access to new systems? Why?

[Rick Lipkin]

hmpaquito

I expect Win32 and Win64 will work just fine.

Rick Lipkin

[TimStone]

I'm sorry, but I really do not understand your question.

Windows 10 merges Win 7 and Win 8 in a very seamless way. I build desktop applications, and they work on Win 8 or 7 with absolutely no problems.

Computers being sold today are using a 64 bit OS. Are we not best serving our clients if we offer them 64 bit software ?

Those who have already downloaded the preview report no problems running older software. I should have preview setup within a week. I can tell more then.

Tim

[Gale FORd]

Even Microsoft still uses the older UI. Windows 8 and 10 will still support previous applications just fine. I am actually having fun with my Windows Surface Pro 3. It even came with a mix of Metro and older ui applications. No need to worry about Microsoft supporting older programs.
In fact I read an article that someone inside Microsoft said there are rumors that Microsoft skipped the name Windows 9 because during testing some older programs were written in such a way that the programs was thinking it was running under Windows 95 or 98 instead of Windows 9. So they skipped version 9 and called it version 10.

[TimStone]

I am actually having fun with my Windows Surface Pro 3. It even came with a mix of Metro and older ui applications. No need to worry about Microsoft supporting older programs.

I have the Surface Pro 3, and I can run everything on it. I also have Windows Phone 8.1 ( Nokia Lumia Icon - with CYAN ) and it does a beautiful job in every way.

Tim

[Gale FORd]

Here is the article I read on why it is named Windows 10.
http://gizmodo.com/windows-10-may-have-gotten-its-name-because-of-lazy-cod-1641383218

[Gale FORd]

I am really getting into OneNote and OneDrive also. I am not using the one that came with the surface but the one in Office 365/2013

[TimStone]

I have used One Note for years. I keep all of my programming notes, shopping lists, file structures, and anything else I want to have access to anywhere. It is so easy to use and organize.

I have Office 365 Small Business Pro. I love the Exchange server. No matter what device I use I can have all my contacts, emails, calendar, and to do info with me. When I explain to people I can set an appointment on my phone and it is instantly on my computer they are amazed. If I'm reading a book on my iPad or Surface, and its getting close to an appointment, the reminder sounds.

[hmpaquito]

A simple and illuminating question:

Are your listboxes movable finger? Or use a ugly and obsolete scroll bar.

[TimStone]

I don't understand your comment. I do not see scrollbars as being ugly or obsolete. Perhaps those rotary selection controls ( ie. dates in iOS ) are "modern" but they are highly ineffective for a business application. For dropdowns, I use my stylus. For full browse controls, I can use the scrollbar or my finger. However, because there may be thousands of items in a list, in my application, the customer just starts typing the first few characters and the browse automatically positions. Then they can move the scroll bar for a specific item.

My application, which started 32 years ago in CPM, then DOS, and finally windows, works beautifully with a Windows tablet using keyboard, mouse, stylus, or touch.

Tim