DEJA VUE: MSDOS - METRO

[Otto]

The situation today is causing a “dejavue” to me and remembering me when WINDOW appeared and most of the programmers still where focused – and wasted a lot of time – on DOS.
I think we are making the same error to day.
Best regards,
Otto

[Antonio Linares]

Dear Otto,

I recently read that surely we may all finish coding in a MsDos alike character based OS, after all the GUI trip...

I smiled when I read it, but then I thought, "who knows ?..."

Like in an infinite loop, where the end is just a new beginning...

[mastintin]

Looking back on,I don't see a big difference in the concept (saving distances) between the new "metro" and MS-DOS: minimalist simplicity on the interface, clear text at the controls, one screen = one task ...
It reminds me the MS-DOS, except antileasing of texts ....
Macosx , Linux , etc , choose other paths .the future is to discover.

[elvira]

Otto is right.

If we don´t pay attention to Metro and the Web, there will be no future for us I am afraid.

If FWH and Harbour would have been available in 1995, the future of Clipper will be very diferent than todays.

[Bayron]

I have used MicroSoft Windows since 1993, but at that time I had to be moving back to DOS more than I wanted, because all of my sofware was for DOS (not only the one I developed)...

I did not see other people moving to windows until they where obligated by the 2K problem... At least 1 of my costumers still uses a XT computer with software I designed in 1993 (I was surprised when I so it about 1 year ago)... because that computer had a problem with the battery and the date was most of the time wrong so I checked the date at start up, and if it was wrong, I prompted for it(Antonio have to do the same with his Raspberry PI)... I also know a couple of companies using AS400 and System 36, and not necesarily the new ones, but since 1993...

The thing is:
Commercial costumers don't go with the flow... They want to have something that they can use, because they have tested it for years and it just works... and not being toying with something new for years to come...

I met a couple of people that wanted me to port their applications from DOS (yes is still being used), to Windows, only if I can make the same design that they have already... only because it will be too expensive to teach their employees to use a new UI...

Most Commercial costumers will ask you: Will it Run in Windows 8??? and not: Will it have Windows 8 interface???

In Otto's enviroment, I can see smart prepared people using his interface and adapting to new things, but I also have seen people in McDonal's being trained for days or even weeks to use a POS with 10 buttons...

On the other hand, Windows 8 is very intuitive... but my personal opinion is that the fact that FiveWin Metro Classes do not behave the same as Windows Metro ones, will be very confusing or at least agravating for users... I don't know is there is even interest in Harbour developers to port it to Windows Metro, or if is even posible, but if we don't have a native app, it will be like using a DOS app from Windows...

I love to have new controls to play with, so I hope the new Metro classes are enhanced so I can use them with Windows 7, but I don't think I will ever use them with Windows 8... I may be wrong, but time always says the truth...

[hag]

Bayron wrote:

Most Commercial costumers will ask you: Will it Run in Windows 8??? and not: Will it have Windows 8 interface???

Very true.....

Most windows users will not run out and buy or upgrade to Metro 8. Metro 8 will be used and integrated primarily when users upgrade their computers not the software.

So there is plenty of time to upgrade the process.

[Otto]

buyer market

The situation here in Europe is different. Here it is difficult to find new customers for your products (in our case software).
Most of the companies are well equipped with software. So if you want new costumers you have to offer something special.
And if you are capable to offer a Metro style UI in time I mean before all the others you have an advantage.

generation problems
Also many of the companies we sold our software in the past are now in the situation that the children follow their parents in management.
And the children make changes in the organization. Software is a big part of a business organization. And if you get the touch to be old fashioned then they substitute your software with a new one.

Perspective for your own company
Also your coworkers must have a perspective. And to support WINDOWS 8 Metro style is a must have.
Most of us “clipperheads” are old and for our rest work-life traditional windows will be around or there will be boxes or virtuell XP machines supporting these programs.

Best regards,
Otto

[modicr]

>The situation here in Europe is different.

BTW, here is an interesting application
http://www.julien-manici.com/immersive_explorer/

Although it is not a Windows 8 "Metro application", it is designed around the "Metro" user interface guidelines. It will be optimised for touch-screens, but will offer a great experience for desktop users too (with features like scroll-to-zoom, keyboard navigation).
Immersive Explorer is based on Win32/.net/WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation). It uses graphical hardware acceleration to display fluid animations and transitions, making it look more modern than the default GDI-based Windows file explorer.
...
I expect Windows 8 (x86) tablets to be more popular than Windows RT tablets among power users, so lack of Windows RT support is not a huge problem.

Configuration required: Windows 7 or Windows 8, Core 2 Duo, .Net 4, ...

[TimStone]

I took a week for vacation ... back for a few days, then gone again ! When it comes to hanging out with my grandkids, or on the computer, the grandkids win every time !

I think its important to view this discussion in light of what Microsoft has shown over the recent months, and where they are headed. If they sell their new direction to consumers and companies, then what we do will be very important.

First, Microsoft is moving everything to cloud based services ! Yes, you can still do desktop, but the emphasis on everything will be cloud based ! The DBF file format is NOT supported there !

Secondly, there are two interfaces. Metro ogranizes, and speaks to us, but significant applications are still going to run on the desktop. If you have any doubt, check out the new Office 2013 ! Its a desktop client, not a Metro interface. It loads from Metro, but thats only a Start tile that activates a desktop application. Its the same for all of the Win 8 Office apps.

Thirdly, Windows 2012 Server employs the same combo interface. It has the Win 8 controls, but runs desktop applications.

My FWH application is a desktop app that runs beautifully in Win 8. In fact, it resizes the dialogs to fit full screen, with proportional sizing so the actual entry fields are very large ... just like my clients love ! WIth a bit of adjustment, I expect to get the proportions perfect for a widescreen monitor. Then all we need to do is implement an Office 2013 menu style ( check it out Antonio ... its the new "Cosmopolitan" theme Microsoft is embracing ) and our applications will blend right in with other Windows 8 desktop implementations.

Finally, I tested my application on a Win 7 touch screen monitor which should also work well with Win 8. It worked beautifully.

So ... I don't think we are going to be obsolete with our desktop apps ... but we can sure beat out the competition with a little "look and feel" modification to the theme. If we can get that all implemented by October 26, we win.

Oh ... and remember ... On October 26, we have the full spectrum of product, tested by millions ... Win 8 on the desktop, notebook, slate, phone ... and a totally compatible Win 2012 server. Have it in the office, or in the cloud. No one else can do that ( not Apple, and not Google ) ...

If you haven't tested the Win 8 products, do it now. Its free at every level ! With a bit of practice, you will likely enjoy it, and so will your clients.

Tim

[Otto]

Hello Tim,
You say we should buy Microsoft shares?
Best regards,
Otto

[modicr]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/genemarcial ... -presence/

Investors no longer view Microsoft (MSFT) as a boring investment, as the stock continues to demonstrate an inherent strength to head back to the upper $30s where it traded before the financial meltdown.

[lucasdebeltran]

Hi,

I am also very interested in Office 2013 style:
http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/70/ ... &upscale=1



Thanks.

[norberto]

Yesterday Microsoft show the new hotmail, outlook, try in www.outlook.com, its free. have email, skype, msn, office web, skydrive and metro style.