Porting from Fwh to Mac

[TimStone]

I'm loving this conversation. With 30 years of experience as a developer, I've heard it over and over again.

When I first started out, people told me PC's and DOS would never do multi-user, and the only OS for the future was UNIX. In vertical markets, DOS won and then Windows. UNIX never competed.

Linux has been around for a very long time. Techies like it because it is FREE to them. Thus, they want people to buy it. Web hosts like it because the cost is so low and they make more profit, so they push it.

Android is popular because it is FREE and can be modified. Its used in tablets and phones because the profits are higher.

When playing games, watching videos, reading articles, etc., people want the device that costs the least. If someone is looking to consume entertainment, or information, they want the cheapest devices possible.

Of course, when the device is cheap, they also want the apps to be cheap. $ 0.99 US is considered the normal price for an app. At that price, the developer earns $ 0.70 per sales. It takes a lot of apps to make enough money to support a person. Everyone dreams of "the big app" that makes millions, but not many get there.

For most developers, earning a living requires working for a very large company, or building applications for business. That's what we do here. If you look at businesses, they are still firmly based on Windows based software.

I found the comment about Linux interesting. You use Linux, with a specialized shell, to run a Windows program. Ahhh. It works. Now, if you have a problem, what do you troubleshoot ? Linux ? The Shell ? The Windows program ? Its a lot more complicated, and that is costly. It also takes a lot of research to find issues between the shell and Linux and possible problems it might have. Its much easier to simply write a program for the Windows OS, and stick with it.

As I said, I've been hearing these same conversations for 30 years. Because of it installed base, Windows will be around longer than I will continue to program.

As for Android, its only future beyond being a device OS will be determined when Android can penetrate the business community with a tight, secure, non-open system with a rich OS, solid servers, and interfacing to a full featured, secure, office suite.

[Richard Chidiak]

Tim

I agree with many parts of what you said, i think few things have to be added.

The problem is the "future" of the pc itself . in few years probably pcs will be replaced with "clever tablets" . This is where the battle starts between Microsoft, Apple and Google .

Tablets are getting better and better every day and we can bet that in a short time they will provide a complete replacement to a notebook. The target is millions of netbooks to be replaced over the world.

This is one of the reasons Microsoft went to the "metro" like interface. It is designed for a tablet not a pc ! I am one of those who do not like this interface on my pc , i am using windows 8 pro and i am not too happy with this.

In a short time, the battle will be in connexion to mainframes , here Microsoft has a plus, but i beleive Android will be there in a very short time.

I do not think neither that Unix Linux... are the future , we have seen this around 30 years ago and no success.

Tablets with a dock including keyboard, why should a "user" need a notebook for ?

My 2 cents,

Richard

[TimStone]

Richard,

I do agree with where we may be headed. Again, it is the scope of the marketplace.

Right now I have a desktop, a large screen notebook, a tablet, and a phone. All are running Windows 8 ( except this phone is 7.5 for now ). Microsoft has done a very good job of tying everything together, and I can go from one device to another and they are all on the same Windows account and the data is saved to the cloud ... so it is all very transparent and it is working very nicely. Each device has a purpose. My tablet docks and has access to a keyboard, mouse, and large flat screen ( 24" ). That helps.

I also have an iPod ( latest ) and worked for awhile with an iPad ( full size ). The ipod and phone are just too small to do any real work. They are convenient for communication and looking at some information, but otherwise, I would quickly tire of doing anything with them.

The tablet is nice, but it is not great for multi-tasking. Again, it is great for small amounts of data entry, but for me it is difficult to use it for writing or any larger amounts of data entry. Its great to interact with a client and have it there for placing an order, but business does so much more.

My notebook is my "workstation away from home". When I go somewhere for a period of time, it has a 17" display and I can work multiple documents easily. It is my remote programming machine ( which I really won't do on a tablet ).

My desktop is my real workhorse. I use dual monitors because I have a lot to track. It also has all my long term storage.

I think business will continue to see value in all of these devices. Each has a purpose. Right now tablets are filling in a big hole, but I don't forsee them doing everything.

I envision a small business. It is run on a single "all in one" desktop ( or notebook ). The salespeople and stock people use tablets ( phones are really too small ... too much potential for errors ). All are networked. This all ties together nicely. You can do this today on a win 8 system without any problems. The setup of the new software is so easy, and by using one Microsoft account, and SkyDrive, it all ties together quickly and without errors.

Also, many companies want the ability to do everything in a closed server system without cloud access and control. That is still available from Microsoft, and its easy to do.

Right now, Apple's cloud is still a work in progress. Also, they have not taken the steps to tie together their PC's and portable ( iOS ) devices. Their productivity apps for a full scale business are still lacking. Networking of Mac devices is also still not easy and its problematic. There server product actually is software that sits on top of their PC OS. Time will change this.

The Android solutions I hear about try to join various technologies together, but it becomes rather complex. That's great for techies, but not the public as a whole, and businesses are just not going there unless the IT person has a lot of authority to experiment.

My point is simple. Microsoft has been the leader in technology for business, and though win 8 gets a lot of negative media comments from "consumer" authors, it still has the best total package out there. People said Apple would kill it off, but that didn't happen. Apple stock and sales are falling. Now they say Android will kill it off, but I wouldn't put any money on that either. They are selling to smartphones and cheap tablets, but provide no business solutions yet. I do believe Microsoft will adapt as necessary to keep the best software options out there for the people who buy our business solutions.

Of course anyone is free to program otherwise. In the markets I know, and sell to, there are zero Apple applications, and zero Android applications. I know where I will stay.

[mastintin]

Antonio , quisiera que tradujeras estas lineas ya que mi ingles es nulo , pero quiero dar mi opinion.
De acuerdo que microsoft domina el mercado y da de comer a los programadores de este foro . Yo soy un usuario de mac y como bien dice TimStone no existe nada para gestion de empresa en Mac. ¿ Porque ? , es que no se han vendido ordenadores Mac ? no se puede ? . Si cogemos fotos de cualquier universidad Americana o Europea vemos una gran cantidad de aparatos Mac que una vez terminado su uso universitario sus dueños quieren usar para algo mas que sincronizar el iTunes.
Es indudable que existe un nicho de mercado . Si somos programadores y existe un mercado no explotado , ¿ Porque no entrar en el ? , Ah! que tiene mas nicho Windows ! ,si y mas competencia .Negar un mercado porque el otro es mejor no es una decisión inteligente. El primero que desarrolle un "contaplus" en Mac puede vender muchas licencias a empresas que porque su politica de imagen es ser "more COOL" que la competencia tienen Mac en sus tiendas.
El titulo de este post es "Porting fwh to mac " , el poder o no poder realizar un reto mide la capacidad de los programadores involucrados tanto como la valided de la plataforma escogida.
Perdonar que no escriba en ingles , pero me es imposible.

[thefull]

My two cents

It's stupid think in Mac, Windows or Linux.

Please, use software multiplataform, and you not have problems.

Harbour its multiplataform, fantastic language.

You have use tools with harbour, example, Qt o GTK+, running without problems in Windows, Mac, Linux.
Please, view Harbour running Windows y Linux : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwwAtTnF2Zk

[MarcoBoschi]

Code: Select all  Expand view

it seems to me that they are all equal

[Otto]

Rafa,
If programming is your job not hobby you have to focus on “ROI”.
Best regards,
Otto

[Antonio Linares]

Otto,

I totally agree with you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment

[elvira]

Rafa,

On your video, what GUI do you use in Windows and Linux?.

Thanks.

[TimStone]

Mastintin,

I went to a Windows Developer's Conference last year and many people there use Macs for their Windows development. I took an iPad to take notes during the presentations. At Microsoft offices you will see Mac's being used. If you go to the FREE Microsoft training seminars, you will see Macs, iPads, and iPhones. In my local shopping mall, there is an Apple Store and a Microsoft Store. They work very closely together. The very best office productivity tool for the Mac is Office 2010 for Mac. It is sold in both stores, and the Apple people recommend it.

I have seen vertical market specific apps for Mac over the years, but they do not survive. First, the networking has always been more difficult. Second, the equipment is far more expensive. For each computer, the cost will be 3 times that of a PC using the same processor. For one computer that might be OK. But for a company buying 10 computers, a PC network might cost $ 8,000 US versus a Mac system costing over $ 25,000. Those Macs break down, and need repair, also, so its hard to say they are worth the huge expense.

Again, people will write programs where they will bring in enough money to support themselves and their families. In most cases, this is for businesses. With the decline in Apple sales in the consumer market, I fully expect to see Apple start focusing on more penetration in the business marketplace.

Tim

Tim

[thefull]

Otto, do not understand very well that it is what you intend to say me, my English is not very fluid.

My goal is not to make any profit, only I want to teach others how to make a GUI with harbour.

Many people don't understand this concept, my free time so I have dedicated to the Harbour community.

I do not expect nor want to get "ROI" on a library of Harbour.

I'm a developer of applications, no GUIs, so this Antonio;-)

Elvira: The video explains that it is. T-Gtk

[thefull]

Tim, I totally agree.

Mastintin,

I went to a Windows Developer's Conference last year and many people there use Macs for their Windows development. I took an iPad to take notes during the presentations. At Microsoft offices you will see Mac's being used. If you go to the FREE Microsoft training seminars, you will see Macs, iPads, and iPhones. In my local shopping mall, there is an Apple Store and a Microsoft Store. They work very closely together. The very best office productivity tool for the Mac is Office 2010 for Mac. It is sold in both stores, and the Apple people recommend it.

I have seen vertical market specific apps for Mac over the years, but they do not survive. First, the networking has always been more difficult. Second, the equipment is far more expensive. For each computer, the cost will be 3 times that of a PC using the same processor. For one computer that might be OK. But for a company buying 10 computers, a PC network might cost $ 8,000 US versus a Mac system costing over $ 25,000. Those Macs break down, and need repair, also, so its hard to say they are worth the huge expense.

Again, people will write programs where they will bring in enough money to support themselves and their families. In most cases, this is for businesses. With the decline in Apple sales in the consumer market, I fully expect to see Apple start focusing on more penetration in the business marketplace.

Tim

Tim

[elvira]

Rafa,

Thank you.

I try to access http://www.t-gtk.org/ but does not work.

Where please I can find more information and tutorials?.

Do you have a blog?.

Thanks.

[thefull]

Ups! I report problem a web developed.

Please check for t-gtk:
http://www.gtxbase.org/forums/index.php

Blog, http://xthefull.blogspot.com.es/
Download the las versión of t-gtk under git;
git clone http://git.code.sf.net/p/t-gtk/gitsvn t-gtk

Rafa,
Thank you.
I try to access http://www.t-gtk.org/ but does not work.

Where please I can find more information and tutorials?.

Do you have a blog?.

Thanks.